Guy is an aggro donk who I have less than 50 hands with. ^#$#$@!# river. Vote!

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $482
UTG+1: $449.60
CO: $600
NoSup4U: $396
SB: $437.15
BB: $487

Pre-flop: (6 players) NoSup4U is SB with
3 folds, NoSup4U raises to $12, BB raises to $40, NoSup4U calls.

Flop: ($82, 3 players)
NoSup4U checks, BB checks.

Turn: ($82, 3 players)
NoSup4U bets $55, BB calls.

River: ($192, 3 players)

Mark

Ummm what is ahead of you besides A-Qs and Q-Q?

Keep in mind i'm ignoring the possibility of set over set... because that doesn't exist.

the only hand that card helped was QQ... if he's got it, or 99 / TT / JJ for that matter, so be it...


i think you still have the best of it...






EDIT


how the fucc are you checking?

I would say donk bet but an aggro player might smell weakness and raise.

So I think I check here and see how much he bets. I don't think he plays QQ, Q9 or KQ like this, but I can see AQ,Q8,QT following a similar line.

You need a puking option on the poll.

hero can't check call anything


unless there's some new form of hold em out there i'm unfamiliar with...

AdKd begs to differ!

are you the small blind or the button?

That's a nutso river.

Are you advocating betting an amount that gets us sticky if he shoves or raises? At that point, we don't beat anything but a stone bluff. I'm really not interested in sticking my whole stack in with bottom set on a 4 straight, 3 flush, 4 overcarded board. Also when we donk, if we don't bet enough to get us sticky to seeing showdown, then our bet smells of weakness and is likely to get raised by a good opponent.

I think it is much smarter to check/call here so that we don't have to put in 249549 when we're behind.

you may be on to something, I was just looking at the list of options

FYP?

I think there are worse rivers. He never has a set here. AKdd I'd worry about. With a double gutter, two overs and position, I doubt he ever checks the flop.

I c/c because AKdd is really the one hand I'm afraid of. His line doesn't make sense.

I'm torn here. I'd prefer to kick a cat, but the problem is I'd never own a cat because cats suck. And I can't kick my dog, because dogs are awesome.

This is a toughy.

either way i'm not even sure what this post is all about, he goes from opening the pot PF OTB to all of a sudden being OOP & checking his set to the PFRR...


i wouldn't check the flop ever if i'm hero, it's just way too drawy... if hero was UTG & in this spot i'd lead out, maybe check raise, but then it looks like the villian in this hand checks it to us (i'm assuming? i dont know wtf is going on it's almost impossible to with the misinformation that's given) @ which point we have to bet this flop like 90% of the time IMO...



so was the turn a c/c by villain? if that's the case & he checks the river, in retrospect i'm probably checking behind, i'm not really sure what calls a bet there...

Like just about every post lately the converter has been screwed up, lol.

sb. he has position on me.

Mark

oh weird. converter problem. I'm the sb in this hand, not the button. Will fix in OP.

Mark

yeah... i didn't mean "how are you checking" to sound like "ZOMGYOUHAVEASETYOUHAVETOBET" haha





EDIT

nvm he fixed it haha...

Villian could have AQ, KQ, QJ, anyone else think that?

Umm... this pretty well sums it up.

Except that this card isn't nearly as awful as you think it is.

He's not calling on the turn on a gutshot, and that's what this completes, aside from KQ or QQ, I suppose.

Meanwhile, a flush draw isn't out of the question either.

What I like to do on these rivers is check, and let him make his move. Depending on the player, I'd call or fold, etc, probably lean towards calling. The problem is, no matter what we do, we don't really have much idea where he is in this hand. Bleh. I think we're either so far ahead that he'd fold to a value bet with all of his worse hands. On the other hand, the check gives him the chance to bluff at us with a wider range, on an obviously scary board. LHE, this is a c/c imo. NL this is a c/?.

Based on preflop action, the villain should often have a bigger pair than ours or a AK/AQ type of hand.

I also just noticed that this is BvB, so his range is significantly wider. That being said, what hands does he reraise with preflop and then check that flop when he is HU with position? I can't think of many. If he flopped a pair, he's probably betting. He's surely betting overpairs. There's an outside chance that he flopped a set and is slowplaying, but is he really gonna flat call the turn with a set? I doubt it. He probably also bets his good draws, which include flush draws and AQ/KQ straight draws.

I think that a c/c on the river is best. I don't think you lose value from many hands since if you bet, he's probably not calling with worse too often anyway. If you choose to bet and he raises, you can't call. He will often show up with some kind of missed draw here.

I guess I just don't have a handle on his range becuase it's BvB and there's not much info to go on. I'd hate to fold here since our hand is so strong looking against the range of hands that he'd played his passively, so the cheapest way not to fold is to c/c!

even though villian is aggro donk, i bet this flop all day long. flop is coordinated and we are oop. i think i understand your thinking that villian will instabet if you check to him. i would suggest not trying to get too cute with a villian like this unless flop is like 834 rainbow or the likes. being that he reraised you pf makes me bet the flop more. the main reason i don't check is because i don't want this to go c/c like ever.

as played i c/call the river.

I would bet this flop vs most good villian's, but in my limited experience with this villian I just couldn't see him checking any flop or understanding how bad this flop would be to bet with AK/AQ etc. I also didn't give him too much credit here pf, given his donkishness so far, and it being bvb. (that was my reasoning at the time for the flop play at least)

Mark

I'd bet AQ here all day long.

+1



double gutters are so sneaky...

This is probably the most flawless strategy post we've had.

well i def. check the river.

let him bruff, I mean value bet.



- Jordan

So anyway, I'm still torn here. Looks like the masses think a check call is in order. Probably I guess. I just know if I am villian and you check to me and I bet, you are behind. (because if I had complete air, I would have bet the flop. And I'd never bet top pair or two pair here)

I ended up donking out half the pot on the river, and praying he would fold, which he did. But anytime you are betting with a hand and NOT wanting to get called, that is some bad poker. So thats what prompted my post, I was kinda sick about how I handled the river.

Mark

I think some small donk bet is your best option here. What else can you do when you get handcuffed by the deck?

I check/call the river.

I do that a lot.

Too often probably.

Edit: Read thru responses and thought about it more. Kick the dog. There isn't enough dog hate here.