PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Acid_Knight ($103.05)
UTG ($100)
MP ($104.50)
Button ($100)
SB ($93.60)

Preflop: Acid_Knight is BB with 9, T.
UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, SB calls $3.50, Acid_Knight calls $3.

Flop: ($12) J, J, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, Acid_Knight bets $9, UTG calls $9, SB folds.

Turn: ($30) J (2 players)
Acid_Knight checks, UTG bets $18, Acid_Knight?

Final Pot: $172

What are we doing if the river is a card below the 9?

I call this 6 out of 5 times. Once you give up control of the hand, he pretty much is betting the turn and river with anything.

His flat call of your bet feels like he raised with AK and floated your flop lead.

Looks like a fairly standard call turn and check/call a non-A river?

Not sure how profitable calling here preflop is going to be. Even if you were suited, your still going to want to have position on the OR. I fold here 90%, raise 5%, cold call 1% and then have some percentage points left over to snack on later.

As played, probably going to call down, unless he puts in a ridiculous pot size+ bet on the river, in which case it might be a fold.

I don't play much NL cash but I'd think this is a bet/fold on the turn, since it allows us to know where we are at, stops us from giving free cards, and doesnt put us in the position of calling down with a marginal hand.

i like this line

I called because it fits into how I play, the SB had come along and the guy who raised had already shown down some less than stellar opening hand standards. I often fold here, but there were reasons why I called.

the fact that he didn't raise your bet on the flop leads me to believe he doesn't have QQ or KK because he wouldn't want to give a free card. i could see villain smooth calling with AA to try to induce a turn bet from a lower pair, or floating with AK, or a low pair thinking hero only had A high. when hero checks the turn he has to expect a bet, i would call the turn and check the river. it depends on what you know about your villain, but in a vaccum thats what i think you're up against.

I think a problem with this hand is what you are representing and the fact you are out of position. I suspect he is reading you as weak and that is how you have played it.

I don't like the check on the turn, as if he has a jack I have to believe he is raising you on the flop. 99 is a possible candidate for a call but as you've taken the lead it is best for 9s to raise here. Simply because he might suspect you have the jack and he doesn't want to get drawn out on.

So really, the only hands I have him smooth calling with are an overpair, maybe an A9 and maybe air. The problem is I can't distinguish between a steal and a value bet as you've told him you don't have the jack and so there are two reasons for him to fire the turn:

He has air but feels he can get you off your 9 because you can credit him for AJ or an overpair.
He has an overpair and is trying to get his money's worth from your 9s.

Against a solid player, I am definitely folding here.
Against this guy (less than stellar showdowns) I am calling him and then check/calling the river providing nothing higher than a jack falls.

Most of the time you are paying in this spot with a check call, and he is in complete control of the hand.

One, REALLY out there idea, is to put in a strong raise for the pot (I know, I'm a freaking donkey, right?).

My feeling is that he doesn't have the jack, and 99 (which is questionable), TT, QQ, KK and AA don't actually account for that many of the possible hand combinations he could have. He also has to put us on a monster to make this huge reraise, and it will really mess with his head.

This is only because he has shown down some trashy hands in the past. At least if he calls you know he has you and it costs almost the same amount as calling a typical bet he makes on the river.

[cringes]

Stop lying. People don't fold boats. Call turn. Call 10 or lower on the river.

I'm going to lead the turn here. Given how you played, I think we have to raise the turn..we dont' love a ton of cards that peel on the river, even if we're ahead on the turn, and Villain (unless he's a nonthinking donkfish) has to chuck worse that 1010 here, and probably will only call with it about 1/2 the time. If we get reraised or called quickly we fold/check.fold obv.

I don't want that happening considering he's drawing dead in this case


This is probably the best thing right here.

To be honest I actually think that bet/folding the turn here is a pretty awful play. I far prefer call turn, check-call river myself. He raises our turn bet with a ridiculous range IMO, heaps of which we beat and that he will bet the river with.

So you suggest check/calling both streets and praying he's bluffing?
I don't think bet/fold is bad at all. We could have a J. We could have a 9 and he can't know if we're gonna lay it down or not. I think a bet/fold is probably best here. Most villains give up because they are obv not gonna draw anymore and if they don't know whether the Hero is capable of laying down Js full of 9s, they don't wanna risk a lot of money bluffing.

I chose to check/call the turn.

The river is a 7

I check and he bets $53.

People are advocating a call?

Just curious, what would our line be if we were UTG with QQ or something to that effect?

I'm probably wrong (I usually am), but is it reasonable to just call flop (presumably to re-evaluate turn) and then come to life because now it's really unlikely someone has the other J?

Why is he raising a hand like AA/KK/QQ on the flop? I mean, if I have a J or a draw I might reraise then he's probably gotta fold. He's got position and no need to bloat the pot at this point.


I think this is a good analysis. He probably plays QQ+ just like this.

We're on our way to all in, aren't we? I stick with this if the river is <9

It is a pretty interesting hand. I can definately see him showing up with QQ through AA here but I still think he is bluffing with AK/AQ or an underpair enough here to call down. Also, with the bet fold line, can't a competent villain put us on a 9 here and bluff us out of it with whiffed overs?

well since the final pot is $173 it's obv u called.

The problem (and it's probably been said by someone else) with calling oop is that you're stuck check/calling or turning your hand into a bluff since you cannot raise for value unless you hit really really big.

At this point, I'm C/Cing anything he bets from the flop to the river, as played...I probably fold the river. In my experience with SSNL, pot size bets usually mean a lot of strength, and trust me I've called a ton of pot sized bets very weak and have cut down on it heavily.

I think he took u to valuetown with TT.

Also, I thought u were ballin what are u doin playing .5/1?

TB17 kind of clarified my point, and I still stand by my initial thought that this is a though spot to call in.

There are a couple reasons why you might want to make call with a hand like this in a similar spot, and most likely it is to mix up your play so your opponents don't know where your at. But even then your not going to wanna make that play too often. However at SSNL there is really no need to do this.

Another reason, which would be similar to set mining. You flop a big and, and get paid off. But you already said you didn't think the OR had a big hand, so you might be a long shot to be play a big pot.

The last reason I can think of off the top of my head, is if you plan on just bluff stealing any flop. Alright fine, but you probably don't want to look at multi way pots for that kinda move.

So if we are not calling, and have a read that this is a weak raiser with a weak hand... and the call behind obv doesn't represent strength, this would be good spot to 3bet the pot. Big raise though, we don't want to give them any implied odds to be calling. Lets go to $18-19.

Or we can just fold.

Some times I feel like a nit, some times I feel like a station, but I always have a hard time understanding why I'm way off a thread of 20 people saying something drastically different than what I think.

Why would we ever consider c/cing two streets here when OP doesn't say he's a crazy maniac bluffer. When he calls the flop, he's got some pair much more times than he's floating with AQ+. He's keeping us honest just so that he doesn't give up this hand so easily if we're semi-bluffing, or he has a really strong pair and didn't want to raise into a jack or draw that was going to rep the jack. There's been far scarier boards at this level I've bet with a set to watch a preflop raiser with AA go into pot control and call three streets without ever raising.

At the turn, he's value-betting. He's value betting AA against a worse pair or value betting 88- against what he perceives to be a draw that he wants to charge his six overcard outs for. So basically, we c/c the turn if we think 88 is making up a good amount of his range, but we would always need to fold the river against random unknown guy considering what he thinks we'd be able to call him with. C/Cing is debatable. I lead toward C/C and C/fing the river (hoping for a free showdown when I'm ahead), but I don't ever really consider calling the river against unknown, unremarkable villian.

Ok, I thought I edited out the final pot, but I guess I missed that. Yes, I called.

This hand turned into a mess. I really hated mysef when I called the river becuase I'm like "he just can't really be bluffing here." I do not think most people are floating this flop often at all with AK/AQ unless they have the FD, so his most likely hand is a bigger pair.

So, I called and he showed QQ obv. Naismith said I should post this becuase he wagered that most people would say that c/c c/c was fine and that I should pay him off (he was right about the response to the thread) where I think that the whole hand is played pretty badly and I should not have paid off the river (the turn play is ok).


I'm saving up to buy a house so I'm pretty cash poor right now. I've never really played any serious number of hands online, so I'm starting off lower than I plan to play so ensure that I can comfortably play 4+ tables before moving up. I got a stake and I'm trying to ensure that it turns into something. The plan is for me to be playing 1/2 NL and then likely move up to 2/4 after I beat 1/2 for a little while.

If I had the cash, I'd still be playing 5/10NL Live, which is my favorite game.

Also, he knows all the Vegas hook...errr...masseuses in the poker rooms. Win-win all around.

I'm not the one who likes to frequent the Imprerial Whore Palace.

You probably got it on with the J-Lo Dealertainer on your last trip.

(FYI Forum Members - the J-Lo Dealertainer consisted of a mid to late 30s Asian woman with a red see through shirt and a baseball cap that said J-Lo on it!)

Oh, how I loathe the Dealertainers.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL THE JLO DEALERTAINER LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WTF!

http://www.imperialpalace.com/play.php?sub...p;contentid=342

How did we not get those?

EDIT: Also, if you look at the images, you'll notice that J-Lo isn't immortalized in the image gallery anywhere.

A bigger tragedy has never existed anywhere.

"In 2003, the Imperial Palace Hotel & Casino changed blackjack in Las Vegas with an innovative experience that combines gaming and entertainment. The Dealertainers Pit, a spinoff of the hotel’s award-winning celebrity tribute show, “Legends In Concert,” brought impersonators to the casino floor in the form of Dealertainers.

At any time during the night, your dealer may step back from the table and belt out one of his/her character’s greatest hits. Michael Jackson, Cher, Dolly Parton, Ray Charles and Elvis are among the more than 20 celebrities represented.

The Dealertainers perform daily from noon until 4 a.m."

They can't be serious.

They have to understand that they are a joke right?

Do you think the dealertainers wake up in the morning with a sense of acheivement, drink in the sunlight, and proudly suit up and head to work?

For those of you who don't know what we're referring to, at the Imperial Palace, in the middle of any given blackjack hand, your uniquely-dressed dealer could back away from the table and do this...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...VideoID=5807291

To get a more realistic effect, kill someone and leave their body in your room for two weeks before watching the video. That will handle the smell. For the full effect, you would need depressing lighting, sticky, disgusting carpeting, mold and people that clearly hate their lives all around you.

One last reminder...

This is the craptastic place Zach got us thrown out of.

EDIT: The word "last" is clearly dishonest.

that was disturbing


it also makes getting booted out of there all the more impressive, they have to be begging for customers.

I probably don't want to know...

but what did you get kicked out of the casino for?

This is one of the funnier things I've read in a long time.

I do want to point out though, that your room/floor of the hotel smelled worse than any other area of the casino.

Well, that's my cue.

Zach, Acid and I started the evening at the Imperial Palace, celebrating three things:

1) Zach's last night in town.
2) My birthday.
3) Canada Day.

We were going to get drunk and mess around for a bit in the infamous Imperial Palace 1-2 NL game, but couldn't get seats. We played some blackjack, boozed it up a bit and then Acid went home because he's a working stiff and needed to be up early. Zach and I moved on to Harrah's for some Crazy4Poker and that's where things went downhill fast.

We started ordering shots for everyone at the table, even though they all refused when we offered, so we'd do all of the shots ourselves. Zach sexually harassed not one, but two different dealers, to the point where they closed down a full table. If you've ever been to a casino, you know how ridiculous it is that they'd ever close a full table.

I'm sure you're thinking that's where we got tossed, but no. At this point, we stumbled out of Harrah's with Zach professing, loudly, his love for Maria the dealer while I countered, also loudly and accurately, that she hated us. Zach wanted to drown his sorrows in more alcohol in some bad poker and by some miracle, we ended up in the Imperial Palace poker room. Zach sat in on the BB and I sat in UTG. The very first hand, I said, "All in blind." Some guy called for 200. That's not a good sign, by the way. I turned over AK and he had KK. River A-ball, ship it. Coincidently, the guy I beat posts in the hockey forum here, although we didn't know that at the time.

This thread immortalizes the hands played:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...amp;hl=Imperial

Basically, the players and dealer didn't like us because we were sooooo drunk. Not all the players, of course. Some of them thought we were funny. At one point, I told Zach he needed to fold because I had the best hand and Zach kept swearing, but, like, not intentionally. The dealer, looking for a reason to boot us, told him not to swear. He turned to me and said something like, "I don't know what they f'n want, they keep telling me I'm f'n swearing, but I'm not." I'd tell him he was swearing as he said that and he'd look at me confused and keep going. Finally, he kicked us out. I cashed out and while I was at the counter, Zach has a bunch of guards surrounding him and I overhear the one cashier calling for more security.

I walk out of the poker area and the army of security people want to know my name. I refuse to tell them because Zach's the one in trouble and I was staying there and didn't want to get thrown out. Zach told them he was staying there with me, but I refused to tell my name. They got really angry and walked us out of the property, which is a really long walk BTW and told me I couldn't come back with Zach.

The two of us nearly got killed crossing the strip, realized Zach had to be at the airport almost immediately and snuck back in to get his stuff. He forgot his Oakleys, but unfortunately remembered before he was gone. I was totally going to keep them.

this is what I like to call, a classic story - I totally want to hang out with you and Zach now.

wtf, kicking you out for swearing? I've never played in a casino before but man, it's poker...if I'm not allowed to flip the table over on a bad beat, I don't want to play there. (just kidding, sort of)

HAHAHAHAHA, I love this thread.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I DIDN'T REMEMBER LEAVING MY SUNGLASSES?

Honestly, I ****ing woke up as the plane was landing. I have no idea how the **** I got there.