Only 4 players

Hero is FTA on CO and raises to $1.50 with . Only BB/Villain calls (short with $18.50).

Pot: $3.25
Flop:

I lead out for $3.25 and Villain raises to $13.00.

The pot is $19.50 and I get 2:1. I think I cannot fold. He has $4 more so if I raise he will def. call.

The question is now: If we put Villain on range like:QJ, QK, a worse heart draw, a OESD like 78, A Middle Pair (88-TT) and so on...
is it proftiable (giving the pot odds and my perhaps 12 outs) to raise the $4 more . Or should I fold???

Edited for worst math ever. Look at it as calling 18 into a 24 pot which is a little worse than 1.5;1. You need your ace outs to make the call, but u should probably discount them a little. 10.5 outs make it close. If u throw in a random e percent of the time he has a worse draw, will probably send it over

it is pretty marginal either way... but when in doubt I flip the coin.

Does that mean push?

Push. Your way ahead of any draws hes semibluffing with, and really your only significantly behind to a hand like 66 or 55 (flopped set), and even then you have 9 outs twice - 2 for FH considerations (16/ 45)... ~needing 3.2:2 to call. Thats WORST case scenario. I'd say your around or slightly better than 50% against his complete range. Call.

Just push the flop and make him make the hard decision =)

It means he has a three sided coin labelled fold, call and raise.

Your question is the sort of thing pokerstove is good for (unfortunately I haven't gotten around to downloading pokerstove yet).

yeah. This has to be a push or fold situation right?

Do people ever advocate a fold? srsly

This is soooo marginal. If you say push here you're basically saying never fold an ace high flush draw.

if you think it is going to be neutral EV then why not push? it is good for metagame. And you might get the villian to make a hero fold.

No, the reason that this is marginally close is that we're against a short stack and we invested just enough money that the pot's laying us just about the same price. although, I never fold ace high flush draws.

Believe me I understand the math. It just makes my mind explode with the advocation of some of the edges that are being pushed.

Maybe it helps the discussion, whether it was a good push or not to say what he had.
He had QJ with the .
And obviously I pushed the extra $4 and got called and I sucked out on him and spiked a heart on the river.

But I am not happy with the result as long as somebody tells me, that I made a good push, based on the odds...

http://twodimes.net/poker/?g=h&b=qh+6h...+10h%0D%0Ajh+qs

Yes, it was a good push based on odds.

Ah cool site TY. And Ty for the work, now I can sleep well again

All edges are good.

why would you not push every edge available?

advocacy

is this a grammar fix or do you agree with him?

I don't have an infinite BR

Doesn't matter... but this is an infinintely boring topic that continues to get brought up with no conclusion and no one on either side willing to give up with their stubborness. Some people don't like to push every edge and that's fine. Some people try to find every edge they can and that's fine too. Settled.

Let me ask you one more question guys. In the heat of the battle, how do you make such decisions quickly.
I mean you only have a few seconds to react. Is there a quick solution for such problems?

I made sth like this in the heat:
I think I could have max 12 outs. by the rule of 4, it' almost 50% I have to call much less then that. He only has 4$ more. I think I can justify a push.

But this is faaaaaar from being exact. DDo you have some better soultions for problems like that?

That's fine. I just wanted to make sure the answer was precisely:

"Never fold an ace high flush draw on a two to the flush, non-paired board"

Of course with the insane exception of action going limp - check from BB, and a sudden push all in on the flop.

No, the 4 and 2 rule is the best way to make quick decisions. I'd say take the time to really consider outs (as in my case argument here that you should discount your aces a bit cause they might be dirty) and just apply the 4:2 rule and do the odds calculation. Post here more and try to do it off the top of your head and that will help too. Last "quick" calculation is that you're a 3:1 dog here if he has a set because of his redraw. Just one of those odds you should just know.

FYP

TY. The 3:1 thing, I knew. Just to have it mentioned. But it is sometimes really hard to make a decision in a few seconds, ins't it?

yes
...
and
...

yes:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...717&hl=thin

post 14

Well if we add in the advice that we should be betting our flush draws for fold equity... they're all raised pots.

If there were certainties, we wouldn't have a game.

sorry, i meant preflop raised pots.