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monix
Early, so no reads...

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t10/t20
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t2320
Hero: t1500
MP1: t1410
MP2: t1560
MP3: t1030
CO: t1390
Button: t1550
SB: t1240
BB: t1500

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 9 icon_suit_heart.gif 9 icon_suit_diamond.gif
UTG folds, Hero raises to t60, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t60 (pot was t90), 2 folds, Button calls t60 (pot was t150), SB folds, BB calls t40 (pot was t210).

Flop: 9 icon_suit_club.gif 2 icon_suit_diamond.gif J icon_suit_club.gif (t250, 4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t250, MP2 calls t250 (pot was t500), 2 folds

Turn: T icon_suit_club.gif (t750, 2 players)
Hero bets t400, MP2 calls t400 (pot was t1150).

River: A icon_suit_diamond.gif (t1550, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 is all-in t850, Hero ????
Cappy37
STT?

Half your chips are in the middle, I'd call..

What exactly can we put him on? He flat called pre flop. This eliminates AK/AQ/AJ from potentials, as well as AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT. I guess you can make a case for Ace-Ten. KQ is a possibility, but meh.. I'd call, just to either double or jump in the next one.

Ax with one club is a possibility, too. With how hard you bet that flop, and how weak you bet that turn, you might as well call that river. I do like the river check, because we can now call a lot of hands we beat, that would not of called us if we shoved the river. As played, call.
Yahkin
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 8:17 AM) *
STT?


Single Table Tournament.
Yahkin
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 8:17 AM) *
What exactly can we put him on? He flat called pre flop. This eliminates AK/AQ/AJ from potentials, as well as AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT. I guess you can make a case for Ace-Ten. KQ is a possibility, but meh.. I'd call, just to either double or jump in the next one.


I disagree that a flat call eliminates AJ+. I agree that the PP's raise, but I see smooth calls by big aces a lot in the first couple levels. The way the villain has played this, I think you will see AJ often, J9 a lot, even AT. You may even see AK call all the way to the river in these things. Of course, you will also see AA and 35cc played this way as well.

I call, 3-1 odds and so many viable 2pr hands.
jmbreslin
I've tried to respond twice but both times someone knocked on my office door and I had to close the window quickly.

First, I don't like that PF raise at all. 99 is a limping hand to play for set value in the early levels of a STT. But if you are going to raise, you better raise a lot bigger than that. There are still enough donks in the early levels of $5.50's that you can count on getting at least 2-3 callers with a raise to 60 chips. Building the pot and then being OOP against several villains with 99 is a bad spot.

Second, I agree with Yahkin that AJ is certainly possible here. Lots of players (including myself) will limp or flat call with AJ in the first couple of levels of an STT because it's just not a hand that's worth getting too aggressive with. And it actually fits the betting pattern perfectly. He flops TPTK but isn't confident enough to raise, so he calls, calls, and then gets very excited when he hits T2P on the river. The only other hand that I think really fits this pattern is a completed flush, since plenty of players will call a small PF raise with AXs. Instead of raising the turn and making the flush obvious, he decides to string you along and then hopes you'll call a big raise on the end.

I honestly can't see many other hands being played like this. You did raise PF and then made a pot-sized CB into several villains, followed by a 2nd shot when the flush scare card comes on the turn, so he has to know you have something and that QQ-AA would be in your range. I can't see him playing a single pair this aggressively, and I just don't see him calling that flop bet with AT. Something like JTs or J9s is possible, but less likely. So for me it comes down to either AJ or a flush.

Whether I call or fold would probably depend on what mood I'm in. If I'm feeling confident and I'm in a double-or-done frame of mind, I'd call. But I don't think folding would be terrible here. You'll still have 800 chips on the first level, so you still have plenty of time to make something happen. You could basically fold your way through the next several levels until you hit a big hand that gives you a good chance to double through.
pdr87
As jm said, this is a limping hand at this level. It's a hand with low risk - high reward.

As played, the flop-bet was ok, maybe a little too large. The turn bet was a little too small imo.

You are getting about 2-1 on your money here. And I think it's enough to call with. It is imo not less than a 35% chance you have him beat. I've even seen players do these things with low pocket pairs.

It's REALLY hard to lay down a set in a online stt.
Cappy37
QUOTE (Yahkin @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 6:39 AM) *
Single Table Tournament.


DIE!

That was a rhetorical "STT?", I was giving myself the excuse for the loose AI call tongue.gif
Cappy37
QUOTE (Yahkin @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 7:18 AM) *
I disagree that a flat call eliminates AJ+. I agree that the PP's raise, but I see smooth calls by big aces a lot in the first couple levels. The way the villain has played this, I think you will see AJ often, J9 a lot, even AT. You may even see AK call all the way to the river in these things. Of course, you will also see AA and 35cc played this way as well.

I call, 3-1 odds and so many viable 2pr hands.


Anyone with a shred of intellect is going to test that flop with 2 clubs and straight possibility on the board. There are simply too many cards you do not want to see on that turn and river to slowplay AJ.

Can you honestly say when you sit down at a STT that 3/4 of the field isn't ready to ship TPTK at the drop of a hat? I didn't think so..
Yahkin
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 7:02 PM) *
Anyone with a shred of intellect is going to test that flop with 2 clubs and straight possibility on the board. There are simply too many cards you do not want to see on that turn and river to slowplay AJ.

Can you honestly say when you sit down at a STT that 3/4 of the field isn't ready to ship TPTK at the drop of a hat? I didn't think so..


And there's your mistake. You are giving them credit for a shred of intellect.

There are three ways I see the fish at the low buyin's play here where you are ahead:

1) They've just hit TPTK and consider it the nuts. Assuming the buyin is $10 or less, they will slowplay this all the time. They are terrified of raising this flop and having you fold.
2) They've just hit TPTK but see the flush and straight draws and assume they will get sucked out on. So they flat call hoping that they don't get sucked out on. Suddenly on the river they hit 2pr and you check. So they assume you had KJ or something and they are way ahead.
3) They missed everything, but think you are bluffing. Besides, they have AK and that can't be beat. Woot, I hit my Ace on the river and will now gladly ship my chips into the middle.
Cappy37
QUOTE (Yahkin @ Thursday, September 13th, 2007, 8:05 AM) *
And there's your mistake. You are giving them credit for a shred of intellect.


lol, touche!

QUOTE
2) They've just hit TPTK but see the flush and straight draws and assume they will get sucked out on. So they flat call hoping that they don't get sucked out on. Suddenly on the river they hit 2pr and you check. So they assume you had KJ or something and they are way ahead.
ouch, that one hit a little too close to home...

QUOTE
3) They missed everything, but think you are bluffing. Besides, they have AK and that can't be beat. Woot, I hit my Ace on the river and will now gladly ship my chips into the middle.


All right you win this round, pretty sure at least 500 donks have done exactly that in the mere time it took me to type this out. That = winner for most likely scenario. Pretty scary to see that flop 4 ways though, and have that 3rd club hit.
monix
I let my time bank run down and almost folded fearing a poorly played flush (or more unlikley, a very poorly played straight). However I called after saying to myself "BUT I HAVE A SET". Villain tabled 22 and MHIG. Now that is a poorly played hand...
Cappy37
QUOTE (monix @ Friday, September 14th, 2007, 6:20 AM) *
I let my time bank run down and almost folded fearing a poorly played flush (or more unlikley, a very poorly played straight). However I called after saying to myself "BUT I HAVE A SET". Villain tabled 22 and MHIG. Now that is a poorly played hand...


Are you seriously going to poke fun at him for set-over-set? Technically, you both dark-tunnelled the turn. Should he push the turn? Should he test if you have a flush by putting all his chips in the middle? That can't be the proper play, can it? Your check on the river said "I don't have a flush", and he shoved (borderline correctly). I mean, you could repost this hand with him as the hero and we'd argue for days on how he should have played it.

How about you both suck for not getting it all in on the flop? tongue.gif
monix
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Friday, September 14th, 2007, 6:46 AM) *
Are you seriously going to poke fun at him for set-over-set?


Not for losing set over set - for slowplaying all the way the river as if he had the nuts no matter what cards came. For being totally oblivious to the potential straight and flush draws that may have gotten there for a pre-flop raiser...then putting all his chips in.
Yahkin
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Friday, September 14th, 2007, 8:46 AM) *
I mean, you could repost this hand with him as the hero and we'd argue for days on how he should have played it.


Fold PF. smile.gif
Cappy37
QUOTE (Yahkin @ Friday, September 14th, 2007, 7:31 AM) *
Fold PF. smile.gif


4% of your stack for the chance to stack someone when a 2 peels off? Really?
Cappy37
QUOTE (monix @ Friday, September 14th, 2007, 6:58 AM) *
Not for losing set over set - for slowplaying all the way the river as if he had the nuts no matter what cards came. For being totally oblivious to the potential straight and flush draws that may have gotten there for a pre-flop raiser...then putting all his chips in.


I may just be arguing for the sake of it at this point, but it's harder to put you on a flush draw raising PF, plus of the potential "straight" cards to hit the board, the Ten is the least likely to have made the straight (only fills gutshots).

That said, I'd definitely check behind in his shoes on the river. Raising all in because you can't call a C/R is not a winning play, to put it mildly.
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