jmbreslin
Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 12:08 PM
Easy call with the 99, or do you bail and let the shorties battle it out? And should I have raised to begin with? (I don't have much experience in turbos...)
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (6 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
CO (t1145)
Button (t2650)
SB (t2065)
BB (t3830)
UTG (t645)
Hero (t3165)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 9

, 9

.
UTG calls t150, Hero calls t150,
CO raises to t1145,
3 folds, UTG calls t495 (All-In), Hero ???
jmbreslin
Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 12:09 PM
Oh, and there are still 12 left (top 4 pay).
Cappy37
Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 3:52 PM
First of all, lets give a round of applause for UTG limping for almost 1/4 of his stack, that is pure genius. Regardless of the overall result, he gets the game ball.
With 99, I think you have to fear 4 potential overcards. Your dream scenario is both of them holding an ace, with kickers lower than 9, but even just both of them sharing an ace would be ideal. You would hate to see A10 and KQ or something along those lines. It costs you 1/3 of your stack, you are getting one heck of a price, and you really only have to beat the CO to show a profit in the hand.
As for reads, I'd probably put your UTG limper on a pocket pair lower than 99. That would follow the logic of "too strong to fold, too weak to shove" because you have to believe he just shoves with Ax, KQ-KT, QJ-QT, or any pocket pair above 99. You are most likely ahead of UTG, but in all honesty, we really don't care. It's the CO who can dent our stack, and about 1/2 of the pot is between you and him.
This isn't *that* bad of a situation, especially in a turbo. CO is squeezing, with just enough chips to get folds. I can't put myself in his shoes and reasonably expect UTG to fold with 1/4 of his chips in the pot, but I can't give CO credit for thinking that far ahead either, esp. without any solid reads.
Gut check time. You have 99. You are only behind pocket 10s and up. If you can put CO on something that big, lay down. If not, get the money in the middle. It's a turbo. 99 may be the best hand you see for a while. If UTG had even two or three hundred more chips, I'd fold in a heartbeat. He doesn't. You can break even, scoop, or lose 1/3 of your stack. Might as well gamble here. This isn't a regular tourney where you are going to be able to steal blinds well enough to avoid confrontations. You *need* to get your money in ahead. You are most likely ahead here.
Erase UTG from the equation (he's only worth 1/2 the pot anyways).. Don't you snap call a push from the CO, especially in a turbo? Why would UTG's piddly chip stack change this decision?
WhatArunAA
Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:25 AM
snap fold..blinds are too low.
pdr87
Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Fold. And it's ok to limp here imo.
throwemaway
Monday, September 10th, 2007, 12:50 PM
At a 6 handed turbo table, you need to raise here preflop and try to isolate the shortstack..I don't think this is even close
monix
Monday, September 10th, 2007, 1:18 PM
Pre-flop - I would raise to 650 telling the rest of the table that you are ready to take on the shortie.
As played, I would call.
jmbreslin
Monday, September 10th, 2007, 3:29 PM
QUOTE (monix @ Monday, September 10th, 2007, 5:18 PM)

Pre-flop - I would raise to 650 telling the rest of the table that you are ready to take on the shortie.
Are you implying a raise may encourage others to fold, stepping out of my way so I can knock out the shortie?
jmbreslin
Monday, September 10th, 2007, 3:34 PM
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 7:52 PM)

As for reads, I'd probably put your UTG limper on a pocket pair lower than 99. That would follow the logic of "too strong to fold, too weak to shove" because you have to believe he just shoves with Ax, KQ-KT, QJ-QT, or any pocket pair above 99.
You could be right, but remember this is a micro SnG - players at this level will make this move when shortstacked with big hands, because they don't want to risk scaring others off when they finally have a good chance to collect some chips. Something like KK or AA is not out of the question for UTG here.
But you are right, I was probably more afraid of the shortie than I should have been. My reluctance to call was that I didn't want to have to dodge another overcard or two - but since UTG couldn't have done any damage to my stack, it shouldn't have mattered. I should really have focused on CO's possible range.
Cappy37
Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 3:39 AM
QUOTE (jmbreslin @ Monday, September 10th, 2007, 4:34 PM)

You could be right, but remember this is a micro SnG - players at this level will make this move when shortstacked with big hands, because they don't want to risk scaring others off when they finally have a good chance to collect some chips. Something like KK or AA is not out of the question for UTG here.
But you are right, I was probably more afraid of the shortie than I should have been. My reluctance to call was that I didn't want to have to dodge another overcard or two - but since UTG couldn't have done any damage to my stack, it shouldn't have mattered. I should really have focused on CO's possible range.
Even the biggest donk in the world is shoving a big PP when he's only got 4x the BB, he's far too likely to get called at least once, and he doesn't want 3 or 4 players in that flop (one would hope).
You can argue for a shove here because you are likely either way ahead of the CO (lower PP), or flipping a coin with him at worst.
You can argue for a fold here because you aren't invested, and a lot of the value of 99 comes from taking down a pot without full confrontation.
It's the 6th best hand in poker, statistically. And yet we can toss it so easily. Yet another reason why I lose more interest in NLHE each day. I actually caught myself playing PL 5 card draw tonight, along with a few O8B sngs. I'm never getting on TV at this rate....
jmbreslin
Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 5:01 AM
QUOTE (Cappy37 @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 7:39 AM)

Even the biggest donk in the world is shoving a big PP when he's only got 4x the BB, he's far too likely to get called at least once, and he doesn't want 3 or 4 players in that flop (one would hope).
The funny thing is, if he is stupid enough to limp from UTG for 25% of his remaining chips with any hand, he's stupid enough to
not push with AA! Shorstacked play is probably one of the aspects of tournament NLHE that is least well understood by micro players.
Cappy37
Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 5:10 AM
QUOTE (jmbreslin @ Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 6:01 AM)

The funny thing is, if he is stupid enough to limp from UTG for 25% of his remaining chips with any hand, he's stupid enough to not push with AA! Shorstacked play is probably one of the aspects of tournament NLHE that is least well understood by micro players.
Not even close, overcalling 2 all-ins with a low-to-medium pocket pair takes the cake. To this day it mystifies me like nothing else that I see online.
jmbreslin
Wednesday, September 12th, 2007, 8:58 AM
I'm sure we could put together an interesting Top 10 list of stupid micro SnG plays. I'd have to add:
1) calling pushes for a good portion of their stack with mediocre cards (no understanding of the gap concept)
2) limping with big pairs at a full table