Sorry, the converter would not accept this one. What to do here. Note that this is the first hand in the tourney so everyone has 1500 chips (9man).

Full Tilt Poker Game #3460546211: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (26448340), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:06:05 ET - 2007/09/04
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Ac]
mrs ohio 1970 folds
BruceAlmighty00 folds
keredush folds
kehoe1 folds
balln925 has 15 seconds left to act
balln925 calls 30
calium23 has 15 seconds left to act
calium23 raises to 120
leadtrumpet has 15 seconds left to act
leadtrumpet calls 120
checkyorself calls 105
Hero calls 90
balln925 calls 90
*** FLOP *** [2c Qc 6c]
checkyorself checks
Hero bets 400
balln925 folds
calium23 folds
leadtrumpet raises to 800

Tough one. That raise could be a set, 2-pair, a completed flush, or a worse Q. Not to mention a slowplayed KK or AA. I think it's more likely one of the hands that has you beat than it is a worse Q, so I'd probably just throw it away. But I'm sure there will be people who will say, "ship it in."

i dare someone to convince me that this is not a shove...even if we are up against a made flush we have 7 outs, which gives us the right price to play on in this hand...that eliminates the fold right there i think, not to mention that we won't be against a made flush every time...now if we call we'll have <600 left, and assuming he shoves the turn we'll be getting close to 5:1 on the call, and we can't fold there either...just get your money in on the flop and either double up or save yourself the time to play another tournament

Yes, I would seriously consider it. The only hand I could see villain making this raise with here that Hero beats is a worse Q. There are plenty of other hands in his range that beat Hero. I can easily see this being one of those hands where I push back thinking, "I have this donk beat," and then when he flips over AA or the flush I think, "Dammit, I knew it."

here's the problem with this though:

if he has A-A, we are about a 3-2 dog, and if he has a made flush we are about a 3-1 dog...if i'm not mistaken, we are getting 1800-400(4.5-1) on the call, so folding is just horrifyingly weak-tight imo...and since we are going to put most of our stack in anyway then we might as well just stick it all in since we can't fold the turn either if we flat-call...if he has A-A, we are not in very bad shape here, if he has a flush, oh well

this is an easy shove. First off, in these low stakes games, there is a good chance you have the best hand. 2nd, if you don't you have a lot of outs. You're a favorite against both 2 6 and Q 2, and 45% against Q 6. Against a set, you're trailing 7-3, but even that isn't THAT bad. If he has KQ, he's in horrific shape. Agaisnt most made flushes, you're about 7-3 dog. I could easily see players making the raise with something like Kc Q, Kc 6, Kc 2, or even just Kc x, in which case you leave them in terrible shape. The sad truth is, if he has you beat (and yes he very well may), there isn't anything you can do about it. You have a srtong hand, you're not in terrible shape against any hand, and any hand you beat is in horrible shape. Time to shove!

btw, to help sabes point even more, we are not a 3-1 dog against a made flush, against some normal flush like Jc Tc, we are 32% to win (just under 2-1 dog!) and the worst case is we're up against the straightflush draw, 5c 4c, leaving us as a 27%, a little better than 3-1 dog. Yeah, we aboslutely can't fold. If you are going to lay this down then expect me to bluff you every hand

i agree with you about shoving, but can you reasonably expect someone to call a raise with these kinds of hands? it's not play money

Top pair nut flush draw, I think you push.

Fold Preflop.

Please elaborate.

Edit: I actually somewhat agree to this. Getting in to these kind of hands OOP early in the tournament is seldom a winning move.

The worst hand in poker is the second best hand. AQ is simply a second best hand.

Early in these SNGs youre looking for low risk, high reward opportunities. AQ just isnt gonna cut it. Small pairs where you can flop a set and win a big pot, or get away cheaply are profitable, but play them fast when you hit, and make sure youre not paying too mcuh, because some people like to over raise in the low buy in SNGs.

Hands you want to get it all in with pre: AA, KK, QQ, obv.

AK: It's ok to get it all in on the first hand with this hand because you are rarely goign to be worse than 45% and you will be up against AQ often enough to make profitable. Don't be the AQ guy.

Scott Fischman explains it well if you go to espn.com/poker, clikc hte poker edge, then listen to the episode from over a year ago where he was on. Idk if they still have it up. read his book, online ace, and subscribe to PokerXFactor, they are both well worth the investment for a player who is learning at low stakes.

Oops, when I looked at the hand originally I didn't notice Hero had the Ac. Apparently I didn't pay attention to the title of the thread either...

I think it's a close call between folding and calling PF because players at this level will make lots of stupid raises in the early stages. But what might tip the scales in favor of folding is the fact that Hero will be playing OOP postflop here.

It's still up there. Listened to it last night. Good stuff there. Definately gonna pick that book up.

I think he specifically says that more people go broke in the first two levels with AQ than any other hand.

yeah you're right, and I woudl be very surprised if my opponent had those kidna of hands, but at the same time, you never know in the low stakes games. I was mainly just trying to show how hard it was for them to have you in bad shape, even if he played a bad hand and got lucky.
As far sa folding preflop, i understand the argument but i disagree completely, it wasn't raised preflop and there is a good ahcne you have the best hand, If you would not look down on a limp and seeing if you can flop a monster, but folding is just too weak

it was in fact raised pf, check the hand a little closer

i don't know that folding is necessarily too weak, it's def a play you should consider but i'm not saying it's an easy fold...i think the problem with A-Q is that oftentimes people commit their entire stack before the flop with it early when the stacks are deep which is just spewing plain and simple...in this spot, we took a flop with the hand, didn't commit a ton of money pf, caught one of the better flops we could hope for, and are pretty much destined to get our money in the middle

ah my bad, thanks for pointing that out, then yeah i wouldn't say a fold is too bad, but i still say call, being a blind an all, not to say i'm huge on defending the blind, but the discount has to mean something, and you do have a pretty strong hand, but now that i see it was raised, i like the thought behind folding

The second you put the 400 in on the flop with the nut-flush draw and TPTK, you have committed yourself to the shove.. In fact, by getting min-raised, you actually have "committed" someone else to the flop who may not actually have you beat. These min-raises are draws an awful lot of the time at these limits, and we are beating *all* draws right now.

Definite ship.

I don't think we can fold AQ PF this early either, but once again, it's situational. OOP + family pot = either a shove or a fold PF, really. Odds of us seeing a flop we like are minimal, and odds of us having the best hand at showdown are minimal. Calling OOP may actually be atrocious here, the more I think about it. We can always shove, but I think we all know about my feelings on the squeeze play. This early in a donkfest you are almost certain to get multiple calls, and AQ is not a fun hand to play 3 ways with all the chips in the middle.

Wow, really? Fold preflop? Yeah, I think so. Too much action, 0 chance of winning the hand without actually making the best hand, and no way to effectively squeeze here and be assured of only getting at most one caller. Fold preflop, as played, ship it in after getting raised on the flop. You fold on that flop after firing the first shell, you are a. ) down to 2/3 your starting chips and b. ) no one watching is going to respect your CBs for the rest of the tournament. As played, you double or go broke here. No other reasonable option. You *cannot* fold to a raise on that flop.

You could fold every single hand in the first three levels of a stars sit n go and still be a winning player. Its basically just a little bonus time to stack someone when you ahve a premium so why waste time with a stupid hand like AQ. There's no rule that says you have to play every time you have a decent hand.

Simple yet very valuable advice.

I couldn't understand why I was stagnating at $1.20 during July, it was like one step forward two steps back. Then I realized that I had loosened up my play in the early levels trying to win some early big pots. I was limping with hands like A9, playing mediocre suited-connectors with maybe 1 or 2 callers in front, limping from UTG with small pocket pairs. Once I noticed that and tightened up my early play, my results improved dramatically and I've been on a nice run since early August. Calling a raise w/ AQ isn't quite as bad as what I was doing, but the lesson is the same.