darkrider88
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 9:53 AM
Relevant chip counts:
SB: 400
BB: 60
MP1: 150
MP2: 200
Hero: 115
Background: Small blind is extremely LAG. His nickname is called "Chaser" for good reason. He is not a good player. BB is TAG. I've won a few pots here and there but haven't played a large pot yet. MP1 and MP2 are both very good players.
Hero: 10c 10s
Action: UTG folds, MP1 raises to 11 (standard), MP2 calls, Hero calls (do you like this call?) SB raises to 70, BB goes all in for 60, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero??
To do the math for you...
11+11+11+70+60=163 pot.
It costs hero 59 dollars to call. Hero is getting 2.8-1, or only needs to win 26% of the time to break even.
Big factor: I am nearly 100% sure SB will bet any flop.
CBass1724
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 9:58 AM
If you are going to call 70 then just shovel the full amount. It is ok to fold here and find a better spot. It only cost you $11 anyway.
dtblizz
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 10:18 AM
You only have $45 more than the bet, so you are both committed to the rest of the hand.
He is a laggy chaser which says very little about his opening range. If you don't see him making squeeze bets like this with squadoosh often then it is a fold situation.
Additionally if the BB is TAG then it is possible he has you dominated and you are playing for a $90 sidepot. In which case you need to re-evaluate your pot odds.
You have invested $11 in the hand. If you had $400+ and "Chaser" covered I *might* call to stack him, but as the stacks stand and the situation played out I would certainly fold.
darkrider88
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 10:35 AM
My first thought was definitely to fold, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that if I go all the way to the river I'm going to have a set about 20% of the time. If I'm ahead of the blinds only 10% of the time w/o flopping a set(they share overcards or overcards vs. an underpair), then it is definitely a +EV call.
dtblizz
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 10:42 AM
QUOTE (darkrider88 @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 2:35 PM)

My first thought was definitely to fold, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that if I go all the way to the river I'm going to have a set about 20% of the time. If I'm ahead of the blinds only 10% of the time w/o flopping a set(they share overcards or overcards vs. an underpair), then it is definitely a +EV call.
Hopefully someone can run numbers on this but I would guess with the TAG BB involved this is a -EV spot.
Also, what is the LAG SB's range for making a raise like this?
darkrider88
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 11:26 AM
The TAG was considered short stack in this game, and I got the feeling he was trying to double up quick or go to the ATM. Chaser's range is 77-KK (AA he just calls),AK, AQ, AJ, KQ.
Does this change anything?
David_Nicoson
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 11:29 AM
CODE
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.066% 45.58% 01.49% 24041813160 786589304.00 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 1: 23.499% 22.54% 00.96% 11889220848 506735096.00 { 55+, A7s+, KQs, A7o+, KQo }
Hand 2: 29.435% 28.57% 00.86% 15072495384 455243144.00 { TT }
This may be too wide a range for Chaser, but keep in mind that the TAG's range is wider than usual if he's aware of Chaser's reputation. We're also looking pretty good in the side pot.
Edit: I'll use your range now.CODE
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.460% 44.68% 01.78% 2223342940 88450875.33 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 1: 25.591% 24.28% 01.31% 1208014950 65329347.33 { KK-77, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 27.949% 27.11% 00.84% 1348805824 41893083.33 { TcTs }
Acid_Knight
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 11:58 AM
Given that you just called preflop isntead of raising leads me to believe that this is an easy fold here. You weren't really trapping, you were just being careful not to commit yourself with a marginal holding.
If you had reraised preflop, then I'd probably be willing to play here. You've invested very little and you're never going to be in a good position to win both pots. You should just fold here.
mtdesmoines
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:05 PM
QUOTE (darkrider88 @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 9:53 AM)

Relevant chip counts:
SB: 400
BB: 60
MP1: 150
MP2: 200
Hero: 115
Background: Small blind is extremely LAG. His nickname is called "Chaser" for good reason. He is not a good player. BB is TAG. I've won a few pots here and there but haven't played a large pot yet. MP1 and MP2 are both very good players.
Hero: 10c 10s
Action: UTG folds, MP1 raises to 11 (standard), MP2 calls, Hero calls (do you like this call?) SB raises to 70, BB goes all in for 60, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero??
To do the math for you...
11+11+11+70+60=163 pot.
It costs hero 59 dollars to call. Hero is getting 2.8-1, or only needs to win 26% of the time to break even.
Big factor: I am nearly 100% sure SB will bet any flop.
If you want to be optimistic, it could be that this is a series of big aces all stealing outs from each other, and getting pushed by 88 or something from the SB.
Acid_Knight
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:32 PM
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:05 PM)

If you want to be optimistic, it could be that this is a series of big aces all stealing outs from each other, and getting pushed by 88 or something from the SB.
If you're gonna be delusional, you might as well put the three of them on T4o, T4o and 44.
mtdesmoines
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:47 PM
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:32 PM)

If you're gonna be delusional, you might as well put the three of them on T4o, T4o and 44.
You think that the entire table engaging in a raise-fest / push-fest means TT can be beaten? and calling off +half our stack to set mine is bad poker?
Acid_Knight
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:00 PM
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:47 PM)

You think that the entire table engaging in a raise-fest / push-fest means TT can be beaten? and calling off +half our stack to set mine is bad poker?
I'm saying that this is not a +EV situation and you should fold.
sabes99
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:47 PM
i think this is kinda close...the problem here is the BB...if he had folded i go ahead and play this hand for sure, but with the BB in there it drastically affects our EV...i think it's close but i would lean towards folding because i don't think we can beat enough of the BB's range
sabes99
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:48 PM
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:47 PM)

You think that the entire table engaging in a raise-fest / push-fest means TT can be beaten?
most likely
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:47 PM)

and calling off +half our stack to set mine is bad poker?
definitely yes
Acid_Knight
Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:58 PM
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 1:47 PM)

and calling off +half our stack to set mine is bad poker?
Bad Poker (
Adj, Noun), Def: Calling more than half of your stack to try and flop a set when getting nowhere near the proper odds to do so.
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