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FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
sierradave
1/2nl, local card club.

4-handed game. BB is semi-tough, sometimes bluffs off a lot of chips, but reads me as being fully-TAG and doesn't usually get too far out of line.

BB has ~$300, I have everyone covered with ~$700.

Preflop, I'm in the sb with K5hearts. UTG limps, button folds, I complete, bb checks.

Flop (3 players, $6): Ah-2c-4h.
I lead out for $4. This is much smaller than in my average game, but all four of us have been playing sort of tight, and this has become the standard "does anyone even want to stay in it with me?" bet on the flop. BB says "four, nah, make it $12." UTG folds. I figure him to bluffing/semi-bluffing 40% of the time here, trying to find out where he is with an okay ace 40%, and holding two pair or better the remaining 20%. I reraise to $32, expecting this will fold out the okay aces and bluffs, usually just get called by everything else. BB says "you didn't flop a wheel on me, did you?" then reraises to $75. I consider moving in but don't think I have enough fold equity, so I just call instead. He looks a little surprised by the call.

Turn (2 players, $156): 3d.
Hero? Options are A)try for the check-raise, B)Bet close to the size of the pot, committing villain if he calls, C)Push all-in, D)check-fold, because we feel guilty about drawing out on the guy and also have never liked money very much anyway.

Also, is there really any practical difference between options B and C? And if we choose option D, do we proudly fold face-up or just show our hand to a neighbor before mucking it?
Merby
Flop: I'm playing this hand like the nuts. I like your line by leading and reraising. When he puts in the 4th raise to $75, it's time to shovel. When you're OOP with a combo-draw, I see no reason for any fancy "call and reevaluate" line. If the turn card bricks, your combo draw loses a lot of luster, but is still good enough to *want* to see a river card. The problem is if you check, he's betting you out of the pot, and if you bet, he might put you in a sticky situation.

Turn: I definitely play this like option (D) check and fold face-up. Clearly our turned straight cannot beat his two pair. (sw)

Turn (no sw): There is *no* way I am folding here. Do you *really* put him on 56, given the flop action??? Keep in mind, 56 is a gutshot on that flop and he puts in a raise *and* a 4-bet. Clearly there are two possibilities:

1) He flopped a straight. In this case, you two are tied, and you're *FREEROLLING* to win the pot with a flush on the river (since you have the 5h, he cannot possibly have a flush draw too)

2) He does *not* have the straight. In this case you have the best hand... What more do you want?? He probably flopped two pair or trips.

My turn action will be entirely with the goal of getting the rest of our chips in the pot. He was the last to raise, so check to him only if he is guaranteed to bet at it. Do whatever it takes to get his chips in the pot.
rdtedm
I like going for the check-raise. Checking here might represent a flushdraw or weak ace and show weakness. let villain do the betting for you - seems like he wants to.
nomad_monad
QUOTE (Merby @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 2:22 PM) *
Flop: I'm playing this hand like the nuts.

^^^^
Yep

Turn - Bet 100. Villain's concerned based on your read. The main issue is the certain % of the time that he folds to the lead but would bet if checked to since he could be worried about the flush draw. But I bet because even if I lose him here, it's not that bad since the pot is already decent sized. We're getting action from a set or str8 no matter what. We could lose 2 pair, but the 2 pair we lose checks behind on the turn a lot and in the end, lots of river cards either make us pay (he fills up for free) or doesn't pay off much (another heart/str8 card).
NoBBiR
QUOTE (Merby @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 1:22 PM) *
Flop: I'm playing this hand like the nuts.


smile.gif
linkwood
QUOTE (sierradave @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 2:08 PM) *
1/2nl, local card club.

4-handed game. BB is semi-tough, sometimes bluffs off a lot of chips, but reads me as being fully-TAG and doesn't usually get too far out of line.

BB has ~$300, I have everyone covered with ~$700.

Preflop, I'm in the sb with K5hearts. UTG limps, button folds, I complete, bb checks.

Flop (3 players, $6): Ah-2c-4h.
I lead out for $4. This is much smaller than in my average game, but all four of us have been playing sort of tight, and this has become the standard "does anyone even want to stay in it with me?" bet on the flop. BB says "four, nah, make it $12." UTG folds. I figure him to bluffing/semi-bluffing 40% of the time here, trying to find out where he is with an okay ace 40%, and holding two pair or better the remaining 20%. I reraise to $32, expecting this will fold out the okay aces and bluffs, usually just get called by everything else. BB says "you didn't flop a wheel on me, did you?" then reraises to $75. I consider moving in but don't think I have enough fold equity, so I just call instead. He looks a little surprised by the call.

Turn (2 players, $156): 3d.
Hero? Options are A)try for the check-raise, B)Bet close to the size of the pot, committing villain if he calls, C)Push all-in, D)check-fold, because we feel guilty about drawing out on the guy and also have never liked money very much anyway.

Also, is there really any practical difference between options B and C? And if we choose option D, do we proudly fold face-up or just show our hand to a neighbor before mucking it?


In line with what others are saying about the flop, I think this is where the decision needs to be made on the hand. You have a huge draw and you're 50/50 with a made hand, but the problem is that if you make your hand it will scare the bejeezus out of a big ace, set, two pair, and you might not get action. When you don't have good implied odds on your hand you either have to get the money in or fold. If you just call you face a lot of problems. What happens if you miss? Do you check fold? What happens if you hit your straight? With four to a straight you may not get full value on your hand from the two pair type hands. Your decision was really on the flop IMHO.
shinzilla
QUOTE (linkwood @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 8:23 AM) *
In line with what others are saying about the flop, I think this is where the decision needs to be made on the hand. You have a huge draw and you're 50/50 with a made hand, but the problem is that if you make your hand it will scare the bejeezus out of a big ace, set, two pair, and you might not get action. When you don't have good implied odds on your hand you either have to get the money in or fold. If you just call you face a lot of problems. What happens if you miss? Do you check fold? What happens if you hit your straight? With four to a straight you may not get full value on your hand from the two pair type hands. Your decision was really on the flop IMHO.


I agree with what you're saying, but one thing: our combo draw isn't 50/50 vs. two pair or a set. But yeah, great explanation of why we push our combo draws hard on the flop.

Can this guy make big laydowns? I'd go for A in this situation, but B is really, really close behind A. If we put him on a set, I'd do B for sure because I don't think there's any way he could lay that down.
CBass1724
I'd probably get it all in on the flop too. If he folds, great. If not, then I am still happy and look forward to dragging a huge pot.

As played, on the turn I definitely check to him. It wouldn't be bad to lead out for $80-110 either but he obviously thinks he is leading so why not let him make the bet.
sierradave
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I considered moving all-in on the flop, but chickened out and decided to call instead. He's been known to check-behind me when scare cards hit, so when the turn card came, I moved all in quickly and let him make the decision. I felt he was a solid enough player to know that betting 100 and moving him all-in were basically the same thing there, and the all-in push often looks just a little more like a desperation bluff.

I expected him to call with a set and have a very tough decision with two pair, potentially calling with that as well. he thought for a long time and, to his credit, finally put me on the flush draw with the 5 of hearts and folded his Ace-deuce face up.

The check-raise probably would have worked, as he was worried about the flush draw and would have wanted to charge me for it, but I think if he hadn't been on his A-game I would've gotten a call against the all-in as well.
rdtedm
QUOTE (sierradave @ Thursday, August 2nd, 2007, 12:23 PM) *
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I considered moving all-in on the flop, but chickened out and decided to call instead. He's been known to check-behind me when scare cards hit, so when the turn card came, I moved all in quickly and let him make the decision. I felt he was a solid enough player to know that betting 100 and moving him all-in were basically the same thing there, and the all-in push often looks just a little more like a desperation bluff.

I expected him to call with a set and have a very tough decision with two pair, potentially calling with that as well. he thought for a long time and, to his credit, finally put me on the flush draw with the 5 of hearts and folded his Ace-deuce face up.

The check-raise probably would have worked, as he was worried about the flush draw and would have wanted to charge me for it, but I think if he hadn't been on his A-game I would've gotten a call against the all-in as well.


A semi-hard laydown, but good hand reading skills by villain. Impressive.
Acid_Knight
You really need to c/r the turn here every time. You have the straight. You have the NFD. You're not worried about giving him a card becuase if he's got a set, he's betting to protect it anyway.

The villain makes a good but also fairly standard laydown here. Next time, check raise the turn.
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