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NoBBiR
I really feel I'm not getting the most out of these type of hands:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($12.25)
CO ($32.80)
Button ($55.65)
Hero ($31.40)
BB ($5)
UTG ($8.95)
MP1 ($7.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 7.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 4, 3, 7 (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $0.75, Button folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.25.

Turn: ($7.25) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $7.25

Analysis and improvement tips are appreciated. Is leading a lot better than a check/raise most of the time?
BrandonPL
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Tuesday, July 31st, 2007, 11:46 PM) *
I really feel I'm not getting the most out of these type of hands:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($12.25)
CO ($32.80)
Button ($55.65)
Hero ($31.40)
BB ($5)
UTG ($8.95)
MP1 ($7.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 7.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 4, 3, 7 (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $0.75, Button folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.25.

Turn: ($7.25) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $7.25

Analysis and improvement tips are appreciated. Is leading a lot better than a check/raise most of the time?


The way you played the hand is fine. Another option is to check call the flop and lead out on the turn. Your hand doesn't look as strong because you didn't check raise which usually sends flags up to most players and instead the stop and go will often confuse them. Leading out is also an acceptable play. You aren't just going to automatically get someone to pay you off every time you flop the nuts. Try playing the hand a few different ways and see which one seems to get you the best results and then make that your primary (although not only) way of playing that type of hand.

I personally use the check raise most often when there was a preflop raiser, use the lead out when there is 4+ way action, and use the stop and go a lot when it looks like the pot will be heads up with no raise preflop although I mix all these plays up in different situations so that someone cannot identify exact betting patterns on my play.
dms26
I would have led at this pot because you really don't want it to check around and then have a 5 or 6 hit. It worked out since someone bet behind you though, but you're going to have a hard time winning a big pot on this hand unless someone has a smaller set or an overpair.

I'll usually bet out into a multiway pot just because there is a good chance someone has some sort of hand to raise or call you with, and a c/r looks more suspicious that you have at least 2 pair.
mtdesmoines
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Tuesday, July 31st, 2007, 10:46 PM) *
I really feel I'm not getting the most out of these type of hands:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($12.25)
CO ($32.80)
Button ($55.65)
Hero ($31.40)
BB ($5)
UTG ($8.95)
MP1 ($7.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 7.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 4, 3, 7 (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $0.75, Button folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.25.

Turn: ($7.25) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: $7.25

Analysis and improvement tips are appreciated. Is leading a lot better than a check/raise most of the time?


Looks fine. We can't stack someone EVERY time we have a good hand.
Merby
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Tuesday, July 31st, 2007, 11:46 PM) *
Analysis and improvement tips are appreciated. Is leading a lot better than a check/raise most of the time?


The way you played it is fine. With a top set like this in a situation like this, I am leading at the pot 80% of the time and check-raising 20% of the time. When I lead at the pot, I frequently vary my bet sizes here: anywhere from $0.75 to $1.50. It is usually around $1, but I vary it so that when my opponents face *any* action from me, there is always the possibility of my having a monster here.

If I check-raise it, I play it like you did.
antistuff
you have to play this fast. most of the catching up somebody could do on that board would involve you getting beat. i would have lead out on the flop, but i dont see anything wrong with the way you played it.

when you flop a set in an unraised pot dont expect to stack somebody all that often.
Craigdog
Pretty standard play here & you played it well.. the board could get nasty with with a 5 so its best to lead most of the time, if your lucky, your against a donk who had JJ,QQ or even AK, who might struggle to let it go at those stakes!
nomad_monad
i usually lead on this board.
other people have already covered why most of the hands that catch up are ones that suck out on you.
beyond that, here are the best chances of building a big pot on this board, against a bunch of limpers:
- call volume. you lead, someone in EP/MP makes a loose call with 7x and it triggers more calls. a c/r from 1st position only ensures the pot becomes HU, assuming you don't drive away the action right there. more calls means better odds for someone drawing to a gutter, but the outs are so minimal we don't care that much. plus if they're drawing to a gutter with 55/66 and turn a set, we get paid big time.
- keeping 7x hands in the pot that then turn another 7. you might get a call from A7 with the c/r, but you'll get that anyway from a lead while also increasing the chances of dragging in weaker 7x hands.
- friskiness from a limped 88/99. you lead and you might get raised by these hands. you c/r, they call but usually give up on the turn
- CO or button deceived by the fastplay and thus looking just to play position on you by calling your lead to rep a slowplayed flopped str8 (i.e. you bet again on the turn, he raises).
- a flop raise from two pair. against a possible flopped str8 board, they often freak to a c/r and flat call. enough turn cards can come that kill your action (another str8 card that makes it a 1 card str8 board, the board pairing in a way that counterfeits them). plus if the two pair is in LP, you lose some extra $ from potential in-between callers.

leading sets you up for all of these possibilities. if they can call the c/r, they will usually raise a flop lead and if they don't, they often call a moderate turn bet anyway. the main advantage of a c/r here is that it gets you close to a PSB when no one has anything - my guess is in the long run the $ from that is a lot less than the $ we make from building a pot by leading.
Merby
QUOTE (nomad_monad @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 1:05 PM) *
i usually lead on this board.
other people have already covered why most of the hands that catch up are ones that suck out on you.
beyond that, here are the best chances of building a big pot on this board, against a bunch of limpers:
- call volume. you lead, someone in EP/MP makes a loose call with 7x and it triggers more calls. a c/r from 1st position only ensures the pot becomes HU, assuming you don't drive away the action right there. more calls means better odds for someone drawing to a gutter, but the outs are so minimal we don't care that much. plus if they're drawing to a gutter with 55/66 and turn a set, we get paid big time.
- keeping 7x hands in the pot that then turn another 7. you might get a call from A7 with the c/r, but you'll get that anyway from a lead while also increasing the chances of dragging in weaker 7x hands.
- friskiness from a limped 88/99. you lead and you might get raised by these hands. you c/r, they call but usually give up on the turn
- CO or button deceived by the fastplay and thus looking just to play position on you by calling your lead to rep a slowplayed flopped str8 (i.e. you bet again on the turn, he raises).
- a flop raise from two pair. against a possible flopped str8 board, they often freak to a c/r and flat call. enough turn cards can come that kill your action (another str8 card that makes it a 1 card str8 board, the board pairing in a way that counterfeits them). plus if the two pair is in LP, you lose some extra $ from potential in-between callers.

leading sets you up for all of these possibilities. if they can call the c/r, they will usually raise a flop lead and if they don't, they often call a moderate turn bet anyway. the main advantage of a c/r here is that it gets you close to a PSB when no one has anything - my guess is in the long run the $ from that is a lot less than the $ we make from building a pot by leading.


I agree with most of what you say. The bolded point is every poker player's best dream, although I have never seen it actually happen. It may have something to do with there only being four 7's in a normal deck of cards.
nomad_monad
QUOTE (Merby @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 1:29 PM) *
I agree with most of what you say. The bolded point is every poker player's best dream, although I have never seen it actually happen. It may have something to do with there only being four 7's in a normal deck of cards.


LOL

What I more or less meant was that you get a call from 7x and it turns a 7. If the chances of that are reduced because others also hold the 7, then at lease you stand a better chance of pulling all of them in by leading as opposed to getting the one with the best kicker by c'ring. I also forgot to add that the more 7x's around on the turn the better - not just because of call volume, but because it increases the chances that you get a 7x that hits their kicker.
NoBBiR
So if everyone at the table holds top pair, and I hold top set, what is my play if another 7 turns?
Merby
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 3:13 PM) *
So if everyone at the table holds top pair, and I hold top set, what is my play if another 7 turns?


Two posts too slow smile.gif
nomad_monad
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 3:13 PM) *
So if everyone at the table holds top pair, and I hold top set, what is my play if another 7 turns?


You grab the hand history and post it here as final conclusive proof that online poker is rigged icon_drool.gif
NoBBiR
I'm already positive that online poker is rigged, so I don't need any evidence.

DAMN YOU, AND YOUR DOOMSWITCH, LEE JONES!?!!!!1!111
antistuff
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 9:13 PM) *
I'm already positive that online poker is rigged, so I don't need any evidence.

DAMN YOU, AND YOUR DOOMSWITCH, LEE JONES!?!!!!1!111


how come im the only person convinced that online poker is rigged in my favor?
TraptSteve
Open shove on the flop. Next hand....

As Nomad said, there could be 2-3 top pair hands out there who'll call.
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