I've been getting more into playing MMTs recently, particularly cheep rebuy tournaments, but I seem to constantly see the wrong side of the bubble in them. I checked out my average finish stats from poker rankings today and they are:

Early 3% (10%)
EM 14% (20%)
Mid. 46% (40%)
ML 30% (20%)
Late 7% (10%)

And in the money places:

1st - 3
2nd - 3
3rd - 1
4-10 - 5
Other - 8

I know stats on their own don't really say much, but to me they seem to indicate that I am getting quite a bit in the ML area, which would be bubble time. Perhaps they also show I'm not loose enough early on? I just try and avoid the early donkfest all ins that go on I suppose.

I'm either scraping towards the bubble short stacked and going out because I don't have enough chips to play with (could it be that I'm not making enough moves early?), or I'm getting there with a decent amount of chips, attacking the bubble and just not getting the right breaks at the right time.

Either way, playing for hours, then ending up with nothing is getting rather frustrating. Particularly when I feel like my tournament game has really improved recently, yet I've barely cashed, and it's an age since I made a decent place in one.

I'm pretty sure I'm right to be thinking about final tabling and going for that top three spot rather than just scraping into the cash with a whimper. If I can think of any issue it's that perhaps my aggression isn't selective enough at times, but any general bubble bursting advice would be much appreciated.

I'm speaking from personal experience mainly, but nearing the bubble, you really only want to open pots with AQ and AJ preferrably with a raise that won't pot commit you , with mid-stacks behind you.. If you don't feel you can steal the blinds, just toss them..

Nothing sucks more in poker than realizing you spent 3 hours of your life grinding to get it all in the middle with AQ or AJ.. I personally prefer 99 and up on the pairs until I see money if my stack allows. Especiialy in 4.40s, where most of your chip accumulation is going to take place from 18th-10th, where the tables get shorter and the players loosen up their ranges.

If your sole goal in getting first, then by all means, fire up the action. Just remember that you will have plenty of chances to pick up some chips once the bubble bursts. Your opponents are going to try the same methodology, and you are going to pick off AI's w/ Ax, Kx, and small pairs once that bubble has burst and the Ms are ridiculously small for the majority left.

Oh, and for the love of god, keep your re-stealing to a minimum, especially if there are players left behind you. Making the right read on one guy isn't worth the price of admission if someone behind you picks up a hand *after* you have committed yourself to the pot.

And don't take everything I say as golden.. I play rather tight for your typical MTTer.. I'd suggest copying an pasting this into the "Tournament Play" forum, guys like JmBreslin, sabes99, and Zach6668 are just a few examples of folks that lurk in the tourney section who have more experience than I do with interpreting your results.

thanks for the shameless plug there cappy

playing rebuy tournaments is a different animal, i wouldn't suggest anyone to play rebuys unless they have enough of a bankroll to handle playing these tournaments "the right way", which IMO means pushing constantly hoping to get lucky and build a monster stack, and possibly dumping off a chunk of money in the process (the way your opponents are playing)...perhaps you are allowing yourself to be run over by the hyper-aggressive play during the rebuy period, and therefore are put at a disadvantage by not giving yourself a chance to build a competent stack...do you have the bankroll to play these tournaments and afford, say, maybe 10 buy-ins or so? if not, then you probably shouldn't be playing this level of rebuy tournament

i like that you are playing to win and want to be aggressive at bubble time...perhaps you aren't being aggressive enough when short-stacked and attacking the other short stacks enough?...even though you might be short, if your opponents are short you can still be aggressive because no one wants to be crippled and forced to maybe go down to the wire to make the money

playing for hours and getting nothing is one of the major frustrations of playing MTTs...if you feel you are playing well then do what you do and continue to try to improve, and look for some holes that you may have overlooked before...also, consider playing cash games if you have the bankroll, and esp if you are having trouble handling that frustration that goes with running dry in MTTs for a while

FYI... I'm a tourney donk....

IE...I have no sample, but I feel that I can prolly play good, but few results to back that upppp...

But I think it's awesome how people think I'm good, and I can instantly get WCOOP stakes, etc.

This is pretty terrible advice. It's not only "if your sole goal is getting first" that you need to be aggressive on the bubble, it's if your goal is to make money. Unless you're playing a super-satellite, the payout structure for MTTs will almost always be so top-heavy that you have to reach the final table to really make anything. The money right after the bubble is just an illusion as it's insignificant relative to the rest of the prize pool.

The best advice I could give you is to read Harrington on Hold 'Em v2, and then maybe tighten up a little bit from that if you're playing low-stakes tourneys where people are making a lot of loose calls, but not too much. If you have less than 10 BB and you're not actually within 2 people of the bubble hitting, you should never ever be open-folding a pair and if you're open in the button or CO, you should be pushing well over 50% of your hands. In fact if you're open on the button in that spot, it's not a bad idea to just push without even looking at your cards.

The thing to remember is that even when you get in behind, you're not losing that much, as you'll still usually have around 30% equity in the pot. Playing too tight is the only way you'll be guaranteed to lose your chips.

Cheers for the replies. To be honest I think I needed a chance to moan as much as anything else when I made my post. I think I'd bubbled like 6 times in 9 decent total prize pool tourneys and was just getting tetchy. I'm just gonna give poker playing a break today though and try and get my brain back in check!

cappy - Yeah, I think I may be putting more focus onto the bubble zone and forgetting that I can accumulate just as well once that has passed and people loosen up a bit more. Really should be keeping that in mind every time I try and raise someone up at bubble time just because it's the bubble.

sabes99 - I think I do need to focus on the other opponents that are short rather than just going at it full aggression some of the time. When I do get knocked out I do tend to get killed playing fairly marginal hands up against the big stacks, but more often than not they will be in with the worst and just luck out. Of course the more of those 60-40 situations I'm in the more likely I'll be going out. For better or worst though, even if I'm playing against the biggest stack at the table and I still have enough chips to put in to give him fold equity (and a reasonable hand (most of the time!)) I'm gonna be pushing.

As for the rebuy strategy, I do agree that it would be nice to go wild, build a huge stack and go in after the break in the top few players. But I honestly feel that at the levels I play them (up to $5 and not really intending to spend more than $25 in one) I am a decent enough player, and there are more than enough bad players holding those big stacks against me that they aren't as powerful as they should be as long as my m's not in the red zone. Even if I am short stacked after the add on I can tend to work myself up to a big stack by the second break because people just can't adjust their play style. It does make for a bit of a grind at times, but because my investment is so low in them I'm less concerned if it does go wrong.

iggymcfly - 'The money right after the bubble is just an illusion as it's insignificant relative to the rest of the prize pool.' that's pretty much how I look at it too, I guess it's just when you have a while between hitting those big cashes even an insignificant bit of money right after the bubble can be nice! Oh and I'm working through my HoH at the moment, which could well be why I'm feeling like my play is improving.

So to summarise, I guess I'm doing OK and a massive first place finish is on the horizon!

Glad to hear it! It's amazing what a positive attitude can do for you in poker. If you are reading HoH, make sure it's volume II, most of volume II's inflection points are dedicated to this very discussion: mid and end game tourney play.