PokerStars Game #11079783456: Tournament #55429485, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/07/22 - 19:04:34 (ET)
Table '55429485 69' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: JoeyCapp77 (3030 in chips)
Seat 2: ATLPoker1 (2990 in chips)
Seat 3: Exclusive (2990 in chips)
Seat 4: macthemac67 (2970 in chips)
Seat 5: bolito (3000 in chips)
Seat 6: JediHawk (2970 in chips)
Seat 7: ff7bigfan (2990 in chips)
Seat 8: mrreverse (3050 in chips)
Seat 9: eliottm83 (2920 in chips)
mrreverse: posts small blind 10
eliottm83: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ff7bigfan [7d 7s]
JoeyCapp77: folds
ATLPoker1: folds
Exclusive: raises 40 to 60
macthemac67: folds
bolito: folds
JediHawk: folds
ff7bigfan: calls 60
mrreverse: folds
eliottm83: folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 2s 4h]
Exclusive: bets 120
ff7bigfan: calls 120
*** TURN *** [7c 2s 4h] [4d]
Exclusive: bets 420
ff7bigfan: calls 420
*** RIVER *** [7c 2s 4h 4d] [Jh]
Exclusive: bets 2390 and is all-in
Opinions? It's obvious the villain had an overpair the whole way, but how often would you put him on JJ here?
Full Version: Hand From $109 $25k Guaranteed
TSFIDTS
Anyway. I don't mind the flop call, but for the love of god, raise the turn. Get some real value for your hand before a scare card comes that might stop him from getting his money in.
Never fold this hand on the river.
If he had JJ this time then fine. It'll maybe teach you not to slowplay too much.
Anyway. I don't mind the flop call, but for the love of god, raise the turn. Get some real value for your hand before a scare card comes that might stop him from getting his money in.
Never fold this hand on the river.
If he had JJ this time then fine. It'll maybe teach you not to slowplay too much.
i'm never ever folding this hand...if he's got J-J then wonderful for him
QUOTE (simo_8ball @ Sunday, July 22nd, 2007, 6:54 PM) 
TSFIDTS
Anyway. I don't mind the flop call, but for the love of god, raise the turn. Get some real value for your hand before a scare card comes that might stop him from getting his money in.
Never fold this hand on the river.
If he had JJ this time then fine. It'll maybe teach you not to slowplay too much.
Anyway. I don't mind the flop call, but for the love of god, raise the turn. Get some real value for your hand before a scare card comes that might stop him from getting his money in.
Never fold this hand on the river.
If he had JJ this time then fine. It'll maybe teach you not to slowplay too much.
agree
QUOTE (sabes99 @ Sunday, July 22nd, 2007, 8:24 PM)
i'm never ever folding this hand...if he's got J-J then wonderful for him
Neither am I. Put me out 6 minutes in.
You should convert hands and post in the tournament forum.
Easiest call ever. Please raise the turn.
QUOTE (simo_8ball @ Sunday, July 22nd, 2007, 3:54 PM)
TSFIDTS
tough shit ?
QUOTE (Actuary @ Sunday, July 22nd, 2007, 10:12 PM)
tough shit ?
Tournament Strategy.
************
OP, follow the forum posting guidelines. They are conveniently stickied at the top of each forum.
Ja, please raise turn, if you put villain on an overpair why are you not try to milk it for all it's worth, on turn 1. You raise to 1.5K he shoves you call 2.???? 3.profit.
As played insta call river, if he has JJ gg, you're only losing to that and 44. Ship it in and laugh (most of the time)
As played insta call river, if he has JJ gg, you're only losing to that and 44. Ship it in and laugh (most of the time)
I think call the flop/raise the turn is a really bad line. You're slowplaying just enough to let villain know that you're really strong without actually letting him bet the whole way. The best way to play this is to raise the flop to 360 or so where you can legitimately represent something like 88 or maybe even 55/66 that's scared of overcards and then bet maybe just over half the pot on the turn.
As played, the river's definitely a call. This could easily be AA, A4, 22, or even 56 that's trying to bluff at the big card thinking you have a middle pair. JJ's the most likely holding, but he's still only going to show up with it about 20% of the time. Nowhere near the 60% you'd need to lay this down.
As played, the river's definitely a call. This could easily be AA, A4, 22, or even 56 that's trying to bluff at the big card thinking you have a middle pair. JJ's the most likely holding, but he's still only going to show up with it about 20% of the time. Nowhere near the 60% you'd need to lay this down.
just for discussion:
If Villain is willing to bet, why not wait until the river to raise?
THe board is not that coordinated, esp for hands that raise preflop
Seems like Raising the turn is not a long term +EV play
just for sake of argument....
-- I like what Iggy is saying though, we can build a pot and thus probably get more off him on the river, than if we keep a smaller pot
If Villain is willing to bet, why not wait until the river to raise?
THe board is not that coordinated, esp for hands that raise preflop
Seems like Raising the turn is not a long term +EV play
just for sake of argument....
-- I like what Iggy is saying though, we can build a pot and thus probably get more off him on the river, than if we keep a smaller pot
raising = infomation... plus raising on the turn will give you extra bang for your hand which could never hurt... hehe
Easy call, like the others said if you're beat it's a cooler, nothing much you can do about it. Ship it and win most of the time, you showed some weakness by just calling, he might put you on top pair if he has an over pair.
QUOTE (Actuary @ Monday, July 23rd, 2007, 3:30 PM)
just for discussion:
If Villain is willing to bet, why not wait until the river to raise?
THe board is not that coordinated, esp for hands that raise preflop
Seems like Raising the turn is not a long term +EV play
just for sake of argument....
-- I like what Iggy is saying though, we can build a pot and thus probably get more off him on the river, than if we keep a smaller pot
If Villain is willing to bet, why not wait until the river to raise?
THe board is not that coordinated, esp for hands that raise preflop
Seems like Raising the turn is not a long term +EV play
just for sake of argument....
-- I like what Iggy is saying though, we can build a pot and thus probably get more off him on the river, than if we keep a smaller pot
Yeah, if we're going to call the flop, we might as well call the turn too, but the reason to raise this flop is that against JJ, there are 12 scare cards that can come and kill our action and against TT, that goes up to 16. We're trying to represent that we're afraid of an overcards because they might kill our hand, but really, we're scared that they might kill our opponent's hand.
no folding here if hes got JJ then its just bad luck for you......
QUOTE (iggymcfly @ Tuesday, July 24th, 2007, 10:40 PM)
Yeah, if we're going to call the flop, we might as well call the turn too, but the reason to raise this flop is that against JJ, there are 12 scare cards that can come and kill our action and against TT, that goes up to 16. We're trying to represent that we're afraid of an overcards because they might kill our hand, but really, we're scared that they might kill our opponent's hand.
Ok, this makes a lot more sense. Raising the turn would like kinda weird after just flatcalling flop.
Also if we raise that flop we're likely gettin called and maybe re-raised by JJ+ IMO, but I dont play the 109s so maybe not.
I think you played the hand well. He raised preflop so you can assume he is firing bullets on this board with any big pair or even AK, AQ, or AJ if he feels you are weak. I think its 50/50 when deciding whether to raise the turn or not. Raising gets rid of any hand he is bluffing with and may even make him lay down something like 88, 99, or 10 10. The hope is that he has AA, KK, QQ, or JJ and he pushes over your reraise. I just think there is no wrong play here when considering whether to raise or call on the turn. On the river, if he has JJ then you are just unlucky and he has a rigged account (sw)
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