Anyone want to take a look. Villain was fairly loose but we had been playing short handed so I guess that's to be expected a little.

Any advice appreciated.


Hand #11036392910
HORSE - *Razz* ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2

*3rd Street* - (0.40 SB)

sheid: xx xx Jh___*brings-in*___folds
melmatttt: xx xx Th___folds
loxo: 6s 2s As___raises
wakelaxer: xx xx 8s___calls

*4th Street* - (2.80 SB)

loxo: 6s 2s As 9h___calls
wakelaxer: xx xx 8s 2d___*bets*

*5th Street* - (2.40 BB)

loxo: 6s 2s As 9h 5c___raises___calls
wakelaxer: xx xx 8s 2d Ac___*bets*___raises

*6th Street* - (8.40 BB)

loxo: 6s 2s As 9h 5c 8d___raises___calls
wakelaxer: xx xx 8s 2d Ac 4h___*bets*___raises

*River* - (14.40 BB)

loxo: 6s 2s As 9h 5c 8d 3d___raises___raises
wakelaxer: xx xx 8s 2d Ac 4h xx___*bets*___raises___calls

*Total pot:* (22.40 BB)

I don't raise 6th for sure at all, and I don't cap 7th. Other than that I play it pretty much the same.

i would play it the same up to 6

on 6 i absolutely would not put in a raise...by his 3-bet on 5, you can be sure he has an 8 made and a good draw...even if you think he paired the 4, he still has an 8 with a big draw most likely, which means you are playing a guessing game as to whether you have the best hand or the best draw, or either

also, on 7 i don't think i cap it, the two hands that beat you (6-3 and 5-3) are good possibilities based on his play of the hand

I think I would call down to 7th, then 2 bet, call a 3rd. No way would I raise on 5th or 6th or cap 7th, you're behind.

If you think you caught him on the river though, I guess you could cap. But odds are you didn't. And playing it like that would only cost you 5-7 big bets calling his wheel instead of 10.

But I suck at Razz.

No way I raise 6th. He took credit of having a made 8 on 5th street, and I believe him. I just call 6th, and cap 7th if I make a 6 or lower. Everyone who's saying "don't cap 7th" aren't taking into account some or all of the following things about this hand:

1) this isn't micro. at 5-10, players usually have a clue, and are capable of at least 2nd level thinking.
2) he has a made 8 on 5th.
3) he knows you have a made 9, and a draw to a lower hand on 5th.
4) the draw to lower than an 8 is a dog to the made 9 (obv. but i'm just pointing out some keys to the hand)
5) when you hit the made 8 on 6th, he knows the best you have is 8532A.
6) he does NOT have to have a pat 8 on 3rd to come in. He could even have a rough 8 (872) to come in with only the A showing missing.
7) he also knows you do not have to have a perfect hand down to come in with a completion with the low card SH. you could have J3-A and be justified in completing.
8) knowing all of this, he's a favorite over your range if that 4 paired him (doubtful it did), and could also just be capping a 7.

given all these factors, i still call 6th and cap 7th if i make a 6.

Thanks guys, I thought 6th might be spewing and you guys have confirmed for me. This was a part of a HORSE cash game and razz is definately my weakest link. The good thing I find though is it is easily everybody elses weakest link (in the most part) and I can normally hold my own by just by being tight, starting with good hands and betting them aggressively. I realise though that this will only be good enough to a point so would love to improve my game. Appreciate your help.

I play HORSE tourney's, and I've found the best strategy for razz is to just fold. Good luck trying to figure this game out, it's not possible.

check my pokerdb stats.

it is possible.

I figured this game out and then became really disenchanted with it. I've won one or two Razz tourneys and cashed a couple others I think. But somehow I can't bring myself to play them anymore. Any tricks to help me get my love for the ultimate game of frustration back.

there are no special tricks really except to challenge yourself against more players, and just realizing that there's still more to learn about this game.

if you think you already have the game fully figured out, you will of course get disenchanted with it.

Oh I certainly dont have it fully figured out. But I know I'm decent at it and a favorite in most med to smaller stakes games...but it also has the ability to bring me to the verge of nuclear tilt. After losing a couple of those A236 and 2345 on 4th hands to 987's and such I want to eat my keyboard.

I can understand that, but knowing when to let those A236, 2345 hands that don't improve on later streets will help you out immensely

hmmmm, I really need to be taking my own advice here

Razz is the ultimate patience builder, no question about it. There have been times when I have literally thrown baseball bats across my basement in Razz tournaments. But after a little bit of play, I have gotten used to most of the swings involved in the game.

One big thing I do is play Razz as much as possible. I'll play the tournaments, but I play cash games as much as possible. It has gotten me used to a ton of situations that can arise and pretty much any factor that could influence those situations. It's the same with playing NLHE cash and tournaments, you learn how to play the game, and you learn how to play various hands, and learn the basics of the game, but there are intricacies that you learn from playing both and knowing the difference that you can't even put a price on.

I sometimes play razz tourneys and play them like I would in a cash game in most spots. Is this the right strategy?

IMO all torunament games have 2 aspects. So in a razz tourney there are razz situations and tourney situations. Meaning the play of the game should be much the same as in cash but there are things that arise that are just pure tourney poker ie: short handed play, short stack play, bubble play, etc. The only thing is in razz you just cant steal the antes on the bubble with a king up...makes me sad.

How about flat calling 5th? I think the 8 probably has as good of a redraw, if not better than our draw. Raising there would be -EV imo.

Agree. Definitely flat call 5th. The raise here did give me some information about how to play later streets, but I prefer a call, because you're about a 2:1 dog here.

FTR, a raise would not be bad in a shorthanded game.