2/4 NL

Villian had $1700 and was absolutely bullying the table. (he was in MP)
I had $400 in EP. Had been playing w/ villian for about 2 hours. I had been up almost a buy-in, but lost a couple sizeable pots, including one where villian and I got into raising war p/f and on the flop and he pushed me off a big hand on the turn.

I limp K 7 , villian limps, LP limps and both blinds complete ($20 in pot)

Before I take too much **** for limping w/ this hand Let me explain:
I use K7 suited black ( or ) to randomize bluffs
I had limped from EP twice earlier in the session, once w/ KK, and once I folded on the turn.

Flop: K K 3

It checks around.

As I said, Villian had been bullying the table, and I figured I could get paid off in a big pot by trapping him.

Turn: 8

I check again, villian bets $4 into $20, it folds to me and I make a bigger than normal raise (I guess to look weak), I raise to $28, villian re-raises to $96, I think I move in, but somehow I left around $100 behind, he puts me in and I call.

How often am I ahead here? I'm trapping villian w/ a big hand, but what hand could he play back at me with that I have in bad shape?
What is villian's range? could he have s or s, or a pocket pair?

What's with the $4 bet? Not going to read into it, but that's just weird.

Villian's train of thought at the turn....
1. No one got a piece of this, a bet will take it down. Let me be an *** and bet 1/5th of the pot???.
2. Who's this guy kidding, he didn't raise preflop and checked to me twice and is trying to rep a king? I call shennigans. I can have any two since i'm playing so many pots so I'm going to rep the king and put him in his place.

That's really what you're looking for from villian. He could be showing up with some sort of spade draw since he didn't bet the flop but got very aggressive on the turn. I guess when you say he was bullying he was betting a lot of flops as opposed to waiting for turns to pick up the pot. This flop is a really good flop to try to steal from a bunch of limpers so I'd be suprised that he didn't bet. But unless you've seen him slowplay big hands frequently (which competent bullies don't usually do), I wouldn't really put him on a monster at all.

i'm not even going to ask about the randomizing bluffs factor here

based on the way he's played, villain could easily have just an 8, maybe a flush draw, maybe squadoosh, but you're never ever folding a set

Not to be picky but its trips (not set) and you are most likely ahead. I don't see him limping with the krablar or 88 if he is bullying the table. Hopefully he misses his flush draw.

Whathappened? Why do you guys hold back the finish.
I feel so much anxiety not knowing. It is killing me.

Worst case senario is that he limped with 33 and you just got insanely unlucky...other wise....no spade..no spade!!!

What the hell are you talking about? Worst case senario isn't 33. Sad thing is that most of his range is beating us after he bets the 96. It's not really lucky to limp 33 here and flop it, its what he was trying to do lol. It's pretty unlikely he has a flush draw here and is pushing so much. I'm pretty sure you aren't beating much unless the guy is just a complete tard. He's bullying the table but it certainly seems like he has the goods on this hand.

Let's not forget he could have the case K which is my guess right now.

Any reasonable K is better than K7 (which is not a reasonable K) so I'm not really thrilled about your hand here. He easily has a boat or trips with a bigger kicker. I'm not sure why everyone is fixated on the hands that he could have that we beat since he likely doesn't go nutso with those holdings since any hand that he has that we beat is a weak hand.

I read more into the 1/5 pot bet on the turn as trying to induce a raise because it does look so sneaky. Once you raise and he reraises, I dunno, I'd be done with the hand most of the time unless you really think he's just got nothing. There isn't a hand that he plays this way for value that you can beat.

This is pretty much exactly what I feared. I likely should dumped after he raised my raise, but instead I got stubborn and pushed (kind of). I just couldn't get out of my head how much bullying he had been doing.

BTW, he had K3 and faded my few outs on the river.

pinch pinch baby

Anyway, when the action goes crazycrazy and I just have trips no kicker ... I put some thought into it, no matter who is pushing into me.

i've heard this a bunch of times but am still not sure wtf it means...


anyone clarify?

K3 - krablar

haha i know what krablar is...

i meant the "pinch pinch" thing...


i've heard that mroe than a few times (online every time)


wondering what it is...

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...&hl=Krablar

wow...



i dont know how i didn't put 2 & 2 together on that one...


<~~ donkey

My feeling would be that most reasonable holdings with a king (AK, KQ) are raising preflop. Obviously given results this guy was seeing a lot more flops than a reasonable player so I guess preflop is kinda hard to judge by. I still wouldn't expect to see hands like Kj- showing up a lot and I would expect the AK and KQ to raise most of the time, so based on his preflop action, he usually doesn't have a king. At the flop, it's usually an aggressive player's tendency to lead with strong hands. So usually, when he does limp with mediocre and weak kings, I would usually expect him to bet it because he would usually bet it if he didn't have anything. So usually based on the flop action, he doesn't have king. At the turn, we've underrepresented our hand so much against the table bully that I just really can't find a fold. With everyone who posts about how a bluff doesn't tell a consistent story and that they would call down with any pair... What does hero's action look like? It looks like a bluff more than a king and because we've done that against an aggressive player who's willing to put us to the test, I just can't see folding.




Yeah, I have no idea what that $4 bet is. I'd be interested to know if he had done it before as well. I also agree that there isn't a hand that he plays for value this way. I think I have semi-bluffs and air more heavily weighted in his range.

Scott,

I agree 100% with you saying he doesn't have a "good" king. I'd even go so far as to say he'll almost never show up with a hand like KJ here. I think most of his range is made up of the kings like KT and K9, against which we have 3 outs to win and 6 more to chop. The problem with the whole hand is his $4 bet. He's been aggressive and bullying, so he expects it to get raised. When it does, he reraises. I would not be happy at all about this if I'm the hero becuase this was a very effective tool to get some chips into the pot.

I don't think our hand is terribly under represented. We checked the flop with high trips. That seems kind of standard, especially since we're OOP to an aggressive player. On the turn, we figure that he'd never check twice with anything, so we check again and then checkraise. Our hand kinda looks like trip kings here and it looks on the turn like he was slowplaying something big.

I just disagree with the notion that most of his range is made up of 2 pair hands or he's semibluffing with a draw. Unless he's really good and made the $4 bet to induce a raise so that he could bluff-3bet the pot, we are never ahead here. Since he made the $4 bet to induce a raise to reraise with his REAL hand, it stands to reason that he could do it with a bluff also, but that's all we're ever beating here is a bluff.

Oh, and I won't even give you that BBFIDTS crap because, hell, you lost to KRABLAR! PINCH PINCH!

Yeah, the $4 bet is just weird. I wish the OP would have put something in as to what he felt it meant since it had to strike him as odd. I think the small bet > reraise is the most compelling reason why we would be behind. But I'm still curious how he's holding k9 and k10 given the previous streets. I would just have a hard time getting past the limp preflop and the check on the flop. I could see 33 being here though.

I still don't think that we look like we have a king. I think our hand looks like a "you don't have a king" hand especially considering there are 2 flush draws at the turn which usually forces are hand to bet. Based on the OP's intentions of his reraise to "appear weak," the villian seems apt to get in pissing matches if he thinks he's being played back at which makes it more likely that he doesn't have a king here. (Obviuosly he did). I don't know... the guy's been splashing around so much and pushing that I would have thought we do find a bluff here a lot. And maybe we do and just not in this hand.

i dont think many people would bluff like this very often, though i can see it being effective if used sparingly vs a good player... that's a BALLSY play to make w/ complete air... & as you can see it wouldn't have worked anyways (hero called)

i think that mos def the hero has represented a 'slow played' K by checking the flop, then check raising the turn... what else would he do that w/? other than a bluff, i assume he wished to do this on the flop, but villian's got the deck crippled right now, & didn't lead in fear of scaring the hero away... after the $4 turn bet gets raised, the villian jumps w/ joy & repops it as he now knows the hero has the case king (or at least SOMETHING he likes enough to CR w/) & has 5 outs to chop & 3 to win... if hero was bluffing he wouldn't have put any more $ into the pot anyways, making the 3bet correct IMO


---and also---






anyone who ignores your posts doesn't want to learn anything / get better at poker...