PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB (t1340)
BB (t1360)
UTG (t3500)
UTG+1 (t3520)
MP1 (t3850)
MP2 (t4230)
MP3 (t480)
CO (t3270)
Hero (t2670)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t90, MP1 calls t90, 3 folds, Hero calls t90, 1 fold, BB calls t60.

Flop: (t375) 2, A, 7 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets t150, MP1 raises to t3760, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t675

TPTK.. Don't go broke in an unraised pot. I had doubled my starting stack nutpeddling and hitting some connecters cheaply. I had no reads whatsoever, he had just moved to my table.. I know I probably overthought it, but that was a sick overbet. In these $1.10 donkfests, guys can push with as much as AA in this spot and get instacalled by middle pair.

My first read on UTG was Queens.. Maybe a flush draw.. Then I worried I was just placing him on a hand I could beat. I figured I could double easier by just folding what was 70/30 the best hand and finding easier spots. Would appreciate some thoughts here.

UTG+1 could easily be making that CB with a weaker Ace or JJ-KK, and MP2 could either be holding a weaker Ace or a flush draw. A set is highly unlikely for both because you wouldn't see that much action. Honestly, I think your TPTK is good here.

Here's the backup question: I just called the raise PF with my AK.. Not overly thrilled with that either, but it's waaay early in a donkfest, impossible to get anyone to lay down, and I'm roughly a coinflip with about 3/4 of the deck.. Is that sound reasoning? I can make the case that I can easily get repushed w/ a worse ace or king, but just as easily with any PP or any "live cards"..

I can go either way with this one and I play this about half reraising and half calling in position. Here I might reraise to get heads-up and get a feel for how strong the raiser is. Post flop, I would call that shove. This is not a very scary board and the raiser didn't show any strength preflop. He also made a bet that screams of weakness. You frankly can't get much of a better flop with your hand too. If you are not going to get some money in here with AK, then you either need to fold it or reraise preflop.

I should add that, if I'm OOP, I will much more likely reraise preflop to try and take it down.

Points in favor of calling rather than reraising:
1) the pot is already multi-way, so isolation is less likely with a reraise
2) you have position on both postflop
3) your hand will be somewhat disguised postflop
This allows you to see the flop with strong cards and react accordingly. The problem is that you got pretty much the best flop you could ask for and you let it go.

Points against calling rather than reraising:
1) you'd rather be heads-up and a big reraise might squeeze out MP1
2) it's still early and you have a decent stack, so you can afford to be aggressive and throw away postflop if you need to
3) even if you get push-reraised, AK is a solid hand to have your chips in the middle with as you will likely be at worst a slight dog on a coinflip and at best a significant fav over hands like AQ, AJ, KQ.

Once you're on the flop, the only hands you're behind are 22, 77, and AA, all of which are unlikely given the action up to this point.

This is not true IMO.

Unless I'm short stacked or pot-committeed, I never like to call an all-in with AK. Part of its strength is its fold equity. You want to see all 5 cards if you are going to play a big pot, but you also want the possibility of forcing a fold. The hands you are getting reshoved with generally (donks and maniacs excepted) here are way ahead of you too.

jm is kind of the $1.10 tourney guru, so I'm going to agree with him.

I reraise pre-flop because early in a $1 donkament, it's much more likely someone is going to go nuts on you and shove w/ like KQ or something. I really want to get all my money in here. Also, even if you just take down the pot, that's a pretty good result.

RERAISE PREFLOP IF YOU LIKE MONEY

That's hilarious, but thanks. I think. And by the way, I've moved up to $5.50...the big time, baby.

Kestral, I've never played an 800-person tourney but if the quality of play is anything like $1.20 SnGs, this kind of early aggression is donkish 8 or 9 times out of 10. Players will go all in PF with hands like AQ, AJ, KQ...cripes, I've even seen guys push 98s on the first hand of a $1.20.

this one seems close, but why would MP1 make such a big bet if he did in fact have a set?...i think i would call with your hand there, it's good too often

QUOTED FOR TRUTH

Fair enough; my (recent) experience is mostly $100+ buyin MTTs, although the play can be pretty bad there too. To be clear, I'm not saying I WOULDN'T call or shove here; I would against certain types of players or in certain circumstances. It's just that, if I'm going to play a big pot with AK, I want be the shover, not the shovee.

I'm re-raising preflop, and I'm getting it all in on the flop. The overbet is sometimes a monster like a set, but at this level, it's more often a weak ace trying to push better hands and flush draws out, or a flush draw semi-bluff. It's ALMOST never a better hand than TPTK.

The beauty of it is: players will go in with AQ, AJ, KQ, and 98 in the 3rd hour of the tournament left. It's a $1.10, courtesy double ups are there all the way to the end of the tournament.. I know that's a way odd way of looking at it, and I'm pretty certain I'm picking up some bad habits playing these. You can't pick up a poker book without getting the obligatory "If you can't fold the best hand, you can't win the tournament" line, and I'm starting to wonder if they were talking specifically about micro-limit Stars tourneys.

This was more along my line of thinking.. I generally hate shoving AK with my tourney life on the line early in a tournament, because you are are no better than 60/40 against 80% of the deck, you're crushed by 2 hands, and you got Ax and Kx 3 to 1. I've lost count of the number of times I've pushed big pre-flop, and then had to make an even uglier decision on the flop with a ton of my children sitting in the middle. I'd much rather be the shover, and I feel most of my edge in these donkaments comes from post-flop play.

Reraise pre-flop, you dont want the blinds coming along for the ride.

As played, its a tough fold...he flat calls pre-flop which is most likely an Ace or a middle pair. Since the Ah is on the board he's not likely to be semi-bluffing, so he's either found his set or has the A. A set that pushes here is playing awfully scared...it would be much better to charge the flush draw and pick up some chips. I doubt that Id call at the table, but you probably have the odds to do it.

I don't get it Cope. You seem to be advocating fold, but you say it looks like an ace or a set, discounting the set possibility. If your read is right, why would we consider folding this? We're crushing everything but a ragged 2-pair right?

The problem with bringing read into this, is it's like hand eight of the tournament. There really isn't much of a read. It's a tournament, not a cash game. He can very easily have a measly flush draw w/ or w/out a 7, but that's still in the 2 to 1 to 3 to 1 range, and I have no clue what the first bettor into the flop planned to do after.

This goes a bit beyond "+ and - EV". My mental approach in this tournament was I wasn't going to flip coins with my entire stack early. I felt I had an edge on the field, and didn't want to go down in flames eight hands in when I couldn't even put either guy on a hand and they both showed interest. I folded. I then proceeded to hit some cheap connectors and a set, and spent the next 3 hours hovering around the tourney average.

Quick note about the shover in the hand: I "noted" his shove on his icon, and bumped into him an hr. later in the tournament, where I *still* had only about 2/3 of his chip stack. I woke up in the big blind with QQ, he raised from CO. I (of course) re-raise him, and heinsta shoves. I ponder for about a half a second, take a deep breath, and double up thx to his 20+ BB shove with KQ. I guess my lesson learned in all of this is: A guy over shoves on you once will do it again. I got him heads up in a pot AIPF when I had a much stronger PF hand, I thought he was stealing, and got my chips in as a huuuge favorite. Anyone else have thoughts on this method of thinking? Am I just making excuses for tight play, or have I made some sort of breakthrough?

There's no real difference between the two scenarios, other than one being PF and one being postflop. In both, you're facing a huge push from a player and you're either way ahead of him or way behind him. You backed off in the first situation but met his challenge in the second. Some could even argue that your call was more justified in the original scenario than in the 2nd situation because you're more likely to be ahead in the first situation.

The only rationale you provided for calling in the 2nd situation was that he shoved against you before and you folded - but you don't know what he was shoving with.

Having the third best start hand in the game is rationale for calling too.

Sure, but my point is that he may be as likely, or more likely, to be ahead in the first scenario than he is in the second based on the circumstances.

The big difference in the second situation was we were the only two people in the pot, I had no one to act behind me, and there was only 2 hands I could possibly be behind, and only one I was flipping a coin with.. I was a good 2-1 or better against anything else. Villain was in a steal position raising an unopened pot. I had a lot going for me in the second situation.

First situation the Villain shoved on the continuation bet from the pre-flop raiser (who had Villain covered), I still had somone to act behind me, not counting the PFRer who opened with a CB on the flop. It's a more complicated setup, and should have insta-called anyways. A lot easier to put him on the flush draw or a weaker ace (he didn't re-raise PF) than a high pocket-pair frustration shove.

Regardless, my question was more about theory than "How do I play this hand". I made a mega-tight/weak fold, I already know that. What I'm more concerned with is the edge we have as smarter, more experienced players suggest that we lie back a little in these donkfests and take the free money handed to us, or is it better to do what comes natural? In my case, I should have re-raised PF to isolate and then CB on the flop. At those levels, it would be more likely I'd be faced with an all-in reraise pre-flop and taken AK against god-knows-what for all my chips.

Is "+EV" misleading in tournament play? I see a half-dozen FCPers barrage 4.40s and 5.50s and such, with more than half of them 3 posts down in the thread showing their "+EV" final hand. Big stacks can take their stack and use +EV situations to gradually (or suddenly) increase that stack over time. But when you are a mid to short stack, you are far more concerned with fold equity, stop and gos, and just about anything else in the arsenal that can build your stack by being the aggressor, not the caller.

Of course, you can make the argument that a MTT is setup by the original +EV play. I call there, and (if) I'm good and hold, I got 5k+ in chips at 15/30 blinds. If all heck breaks loose, I'm the fourth "+EV I Hate Riverstars" post in the barrage thread. At 15/30 blinds, is it even worth it to play a hand like AK super hard? If we willingly end up getting it AIPF with AK at 15/30, are we willing to accept that we are going to see the tournament lobby screen half the time (against reasonable holdings) before a half hour has passed? Isn't that giving up too much of an edge over the long run?

Just to show I learned from this thread, this is early in a 900 person $2.20 NLHE MTT last night:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 (t2850)
MP1 (t1870)
MP2 (t1020)
MP3 (t2910)
Hero (t1680)
Button (t1740)
SB (t2930)
BB (t1550)
UTG (t1550)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t20, 1 fold, MP2 calls t20, MP3 raises to t120, Hero raises to t360, 3 folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t240.

Flop: (t790) 3, K, 7 (2 players)
MP3 bets t700, Hero raises to t1320, MP3 calls t620.

Turn: (t3430) 9 (2 players)

River: (t3430) T (2 players)

Final Pot: t3430

I've also struggled with playing AK hard precisely because you'll often end up on the wrong side of a coinflip for all your chips, but playing it hard in these donkfests will also result in you doubling through more often too. That's because many players at the $1 level are willing to take risks with many worse hands to try to double through: AQ, AJ, even AT, KQ. Like I said before, I've even seen players push with 98s on the first hand of a $1.20 STT. So although you'll end up seeing the lobby earlier than you'd like, there will also be many situations where you'll double through and put yourself in a much better position to finish deep in the tourney.

In this last week, something snapped in my head and I really grew as a player. I stopped fearing getting dealt JJ.. I stopped fearing getting it AIPF with the best of it. And most of all, I realized people will call (and overcall) all-ins with ATC..

Coincidentaly, I re-read HOH vol. 2 and immediately saw about 10 things I was doing wrong and concepts I was totally misapplying. The biggest single thing I eliminated from my arsenal was the ol' "dark tunnel" bet.. I just simply stopped putting chips into a pot that didn't serve an immediate purpose. I absolutely stopped playing connecters in any position worse than LP. I learned that the squeeze play is an excellent way in micro tourneys to get about 4 BBs worth of free chips plus a caller with big hands.

Mostly, I learned that playing big cards in good position is basically *all* you need to concern yourself with to stay above average stack and go deep in the micros. You always need to flip a coin or two at times, but hey.. that's poker.

I don't have the hand history with me, but I benefited from another great example of this in a $1.20 last night. We were only a few hands in and there was this one player who pushed 2 hands in a row. He then pushed a 3rd hand and I called him in LP with AJs. He flipped over 43o and my AJs held up. I typed, "Interesting," into the chatbox and his response was, "I have to go to bed. Lol." This kind of stuff only happens at $1.20.

Nope. And it's not close.