Only been at the table for a couple rounds.

I am all for playing sets aggressively... but

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $401.90
UTG+1: $136
CO: $59.50
Hero: $419.75
SB: $205.90
BB: $442.50

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 4 4
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $8, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 4 2 3 ($40, 5 players)
SB bets $20, BB raises to $50, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Hero ???

This is rough...I tend to think you are probably behind here which i guess means flat calling is better than reraising.

edit: Now that I think about it..I call to bring all the dead money along. If we can keep this 4 handed we have to be +ev right now

LOL. I play bad. I wish you were a little deeper so you could raise to $175 and not be stuck. That's what I want to do.

As is, I just call the flop, hope SB doesn't shove and we get to see one more card. We have position here so that's great because we get a lot of info on blank turn cards and seeing the action in front of us, OOP I'd be inclined to put the big raise in.

bleh, i hate this, but flat call and dump if SB and BB go to war. i'm too lazy to plug 'n chug the numbers, but even if they do go to war, you might be getting the requisite 2-1 to draw to a boat. really marginal at that point because if the pot explodes further then i have to believe that one of them is drawing to the str8 flush, which makes us a little worse than 2-1. but i'm a gambling fool so i'd probably call anyway if the odds were right.

i don't like raising. a raise from a late position player wouldn't bother me, but from BB 2nd to act, i really would like to avoid re-opening the betting for him, especially since we're getting such a good price right now to draw.

Raise to $200 and call the shove. If someone has a flush, that means they don't have your "board pair" outs. If someone has hit pairs/sets on this flop, you are miles ahead. If someone has AA-TT, then this is why we set-mine. Get it in or shut it down.

co only has 59, and he calls 50 of it, so we shouldn't be concerned really...

bbs raise I think means a few things, either he has a set or a flush, and maybe a str8 with the 56 or the A5, but I'm going to lean towards a set first, flush 2nd, and str8 last.

sb i'd put on the weakest hand, but he could be betting Ac2x or some sort of Ac5x hand, i don't know.

Since we have top set, I think we should be willing to get all in here, cause bb raise can easily be a smaller set and he could go with it...

if we just call, and sb does, we are going to have a lot of weird turns that are going to cause us a headache...

such a weird hand cuz of the multi-way action...

I think I like a raise first, then a fold, and lastly a call...but i'm not 100% on that....maybe raise/call/fold....but if we just call, sb shoves, and then bb shoves, we'll be getting about 2:1 to call everything, which won't be quite the right price i dont think, depending on the ranges we give...to all the opponents.

I think best scenario would be top set, middle set, vs flush and the flush being the short stack...and middle/bottom set being the bb...if sb played his flush like this, good for him...i think i like a raise and hope that bb stacks off with a smaller set...if sb does have a flush though, and we get him in, and the bb, we'll still perhaps break even on the hand at worse, if we hold over the bb, and if we boat up, then win a big pot.

i'm not editing and some thoughts are quite raw, but whatever.

- Jordan

Agreed........Big Raise or fold quickly

wow this is about as sick a spot as it gets...i tend to just call and hope the board pairs, and then i would probably dump it if the SB and BB get into a raising war right here...but that is really sick

i don't think folding is an option because of the price we're getting, but of course get a lot more money in the pot and we might have to dump it, if the price comes out wrong

Calling sucks. Your dream scenario is the SB and BB getting into a raising war. This is $$$$$$$$$$$.

If you know for a fact you aren't folding then I would have to put in a raise and play it that way, if you are considering folding and dont want to stack off then I would just call and collect more info on the turn and hope the board pairs...

I hate to raise this hand because of the likelyhood that you will fold out better hands and get pot stuck when you are behind. There is almost no chance that you have the best hand out of all 4 of you, but you do have the best draw. I have no idea what CO is doing, I imagine hes just a tard with a lone Ace of clubs. I think I like a call here and try to boat or quad the turn. If SB reraises, which he might, you probably have to get your money in. You're at best going to win this hand about 35% of the time if your up against a straight, a flush, and the lone Ac. So I think you stand around a 1/3 chance to scoop the pot. If it turns into a all in fest, then I think you have to draw to your boat because the pot will be huge and you'll have odds. In all likelyhood you're against a flush or straight already, so folding out a flush draw doesn't matter because the made flush won't fold. I hate playing so passively with such a hand but I think I call the raise and will call a shove on this flop if it comes back to that. You don't really have fold equity anyway against the multiple villians ranges, so I hate a raise.

if you think that then just call and let them go to war! by raising you might knock the SB out and be forced to play the pot heads-up against the BB, which could cost you an extra $180 if you hit the hand, but by just calling, the SB is much more likely to play, and if you hit then you could win all his money plus likely doubling through the BB, depending on what they have

basically, raising will cost you more money when you lose, with the added problem of possibly limiting profit when you win, it's a bad play all around

Bleh.

I like all of the points that Jordan made.

I'll channel Naismith here and say: "TOP SET? SHOVEL!!!" Of course, Naismith doesn't know how to fold middle pair, so maybe we should listen to Jordan.

This was a strange hand. I felt if I raised, I was only getting raised by hands that I was beat, however if I called, I was gonna let the hands I was ahead of catch up. At the time, folding never crossed my mind.

As played: http://www.pokerhand.org/?1271046

I donno. I got there, but didn't get any value out of it once I made my hand. Currently I am leaning more towards a raise, but I am still very unsure about this hand.

Is it actually wise to hope that there's another set out there? My feeling is that that's kind of a nightmare for us. Yeah, he's drawing nearly dead to us, but he eats 3 of our outs against flushes/straights...which brings us down to 4 (likely picking up 3 more on the turn).

Also, for those of you worried about not closing the action, SB is going to need a ridiculously strong hand (a straight flush, the A-high flush, or maybe the K-high flush) to put in a re-raise here after a raise and two flat calls.

I'm not thrilled with it, but I probably call here and fold the turn UI to heavy action.

If you want proof that our equity edge isn't nearly as big as y'all think...


Board: 4c 2c 3c

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 29.471% 29.40% 00.07% 41223439 100018.00 { 4h4s }
Hand 1: 18.215% 17.53% 00.68% 24583531 956455.00 { TcTd, TcTh, TcTs, 6c6d, 6c6h, 6c6s, 5c5d, 5c5h, 5c5s, 33-22, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, A5s, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, Jc9c, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 65s, 43s, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, Ac9d, Ac9h, Ac9s, A5o, 5c4d, 5c4h, 5c4s }
Hand 2: 25.169% 24.46% 00.71% 34295510 995951.50 { 33-22, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, A5s, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, Kc9c, Kc8c, Kc7c, Kc6c, Kc5c, QcJc, QcTc, Qc9c, Qc8c, Qc7c, Qc6c, Qc5c, JcTc, Jc9c, Jc8c, Jc7c, Jc6c, Jc5c, Tc9c, Tc8c, Tc7c, Tc6c, Tc5c, 9c8c, 9c7c, 9c6c, 9c5c, 8c7c, 8c6c, 8c5c, 7c6c, 7c5c, 65s, 43s, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, Ac9d, Ac9h, Ac9s, Ac8d, Ac8h, Ac8s, Ac7d, Ac7h, Ac7s, Ac6d, Ac6h, Ac6s, A5o, Ac4d, Ac4h, Ac4s, Ac3d, Ac3h, Ac3s, Ac2d, Ac2h, Ac2s, 65o, 5c4d, 5c4h, 5c4s }
Hand 3: 27.145% 26.91% 00.24% 37729281 332534.50 { 6c6d, 6c6h, 6c6s, 5c5d, 5c5h, 5c5s, 33-22, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, 7c6c, 6c5c, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, Ac9d, Ac9h, Ac9s, Ac8d, Ac8h, Ac8s }

I might be an aggro-donk, but, I'm getting my stack in here. If I'm losing the pot to the CO, I want to make up for it with the SB and BB, and, I don't think we're behind the BB's range often enough to constitute folding.

yeah i probably ship it in here too...


i can also understand flat calling, and depending on my mood / impulse, i might be more likely to take this line... but that turn card REALLY SUCKS, wow... what would you have done had BB shoveled the turn??? laydown or get stubborn?

*Edit*
to explain what my motivation for shipn it in on the flop would be:
i'm OBV not folding top set, but i dont know if i wanna go all the way w/ it or not... call & reevaluate turn sucks if another club falls, and at that point i might hafta muck after putting in a good ammount of money.. knowing myself, i wouldn't allow that to happen & i'd probably just ship it in impulsively anyways on the turn... which then leads me to the decision that if i'm probably going to end up doing that, i might as well just push the flop & hope to be vs like 1010 or hope the board pairs...

kinda just depends on how i'm feeling @ the time... w/ the stacks being what they are, i'd probably talk myself into a call / re evaluate spot... if i was anywhere near "short stacked" i'm all in AINEC... i hate boards that coordinated unless i'm the mother fuccer w/ the 4x5c lolz...
*edit*

Get it in and its not even close. Your not deep, no need to fear monsters under the closet with just one buyin. I would consider losing to flopped flush a cooler.

Just saw the results and this is why I gave the advice I gave.

(1) you let villan set his price for his draw

(2) if turn blanks, villan will probably be done with the hand. He might get it in on the flop; he has enough equity vs your range.

(3) if villan had a set of threes or some other made hand, the turn would have killed your action.

this isn't just "the villain" this is a 4-way pot with still a player to act behind me. Obv I have no problem getting the money in here in a HU pot.