Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Extracting Value With A Set
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
aim786
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($37.55)
CO ($25.25)
Button ($42.25)
SB ($52.25)
BB ($42.60)
UTG ($52.40)
UTG+1 ($22)
Hero ($47.25)
MP2 ($22.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3, 3.
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.50, CO raises to $1.5, 2 folds, BB calls $1, UTG calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP3 calls $1.

Flop: ($7.75) 8, 3, A (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($7.75) 8 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5, MP3 folds, CO folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $12.75

Standard?
Royal_Tour
You should be betting this flop - Because of the A. Hope that C/O raised with an A. If he doesnt have one, you wont be taking much off him anyways.

The Ace on the flop might send someone packing, or might entice someone to raise. i make a small lead out bet on the flop, pray that the preflop raiser has an ace.

You really dont know what the preflop raiser has at this point.

and to let it check through the flop then bet 5 on the turn is weird. Looks like a steal, but people will be more than happy to let you have it if they have junk.

so a small flop bet, hope people caught a little piece and then go from there
cwik
yup, leadingg this flop should be be standard.

your only getting any value out of this hand if someone has an Ace, so you might as well start building the pot early.

plus check rasing here just reveals how strong of a hand you have here.
Craigdog
you need to bet about 2/3 of pot on the flop, chances are someone has an ace as it's a raised pot... You need to get betting when you hit these hands. In this case everyone folds...so what, you took the pot down and made the correct play. More often than not in that situation you will get a caller and have the chance of a big score.
mtdesmoines
QUOTE (aim786 @ Thursday, June 28th, 2007, 7:53 PM) *
Standard?


I don't check any flops in LP when they've been checked around to me (unless there's a notorious check-raiser involved somewhere along the line). If nobody else wants it, I'll take the pot ... I don't need a hand to do it. I especially don't check flops I hit. When I hit my hand, we're going to add value to that pot, period. Slow play nothing. Ever. Why are people always trying to play their strong hands for a little money and weak hands for a lot? The only reason I see for checking flops you hit is if you hit a SF or quads or aces full or some nonsense that I've never hit before in my life.

Standard would have been a $6 flop bet and a $15+ turn bet, depending on willingness of BB to give action.

ALSO, the board paired higher than our set, which makes us vulnerable. I'm not against taking the hand down at the turn.
Craigdog
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Friday, June 29th, 2007, 7:33 AM) *
I don't check any flops in LP when they've been checked around to me (unless there's a notorious check-raiser involved somewhere along the line). If nobody else wants it, I'll take the pot ... I don't need a hand to do it. I especially don't check flops I hit. When I hit my hand, we're going to add value to that pot, period. Slow play nothing. Ever. Why are people always trying to play their strong hands for a little money and weak hands for a lot? The only reason I see for checking flops you hit is if you hit a SF or quads or aces full or some nonsense that I've never hit before in my life.

Standard would have been a $6 flop bet and a $15+ turn bet, depending on willingness of BB to give action.

ALSO, the board paired higher than our set, which makes us vulnerable. I'm not against taking the hand down at the turn.


agreed, I used to be one of those players who would slow play garbage like top pair.. utterly ridiculous but that's all part of the learning curve. Good advice!
sierradave
I think this depends a lot on your recent actions at the table/table image. If I've been picking up hands/betting a lot of pots, I'll lead into the raiser here for sure. If I've been caught in any sort of a check-raise bluff, I'll go for the check-raise. My style is pretty tight-aggressive, though, and if I've been card-dead and no one has seen me bet a pot in the past hour or two, I'm much more likely to check this flop. I'm hoping to check-call a flop with barely any draws on it, then reevaluate the turn, either leading out, check-raising, or check-calling with the plan of leading out on the river.

Downside of this line is it makes it pretty damn hard to get paid off big with my set. I still think it maximizes value, though, because if my image is mega-tight, my opponents will lay down anything less than AQ. It results in basically the same line you've got here, but that's the problem with developing the "solid" image. If the cards go cold, you don't have a lot of options, and when they warm back up, people can rightly put you on a big hand. (With that said, given that image I would use this same line from early position with 44 or 22. Nobody's going to bet the ace and the middle card pairs? Sure, I'll represent trips, what the hell?)
KennyMatch
i was reading this about ten minutes ago.

I found it interesting and think it is relevant here.

This kind of thing has happened to me a lot
1. When I make a set, the turn puts an A on and everybody folds to my bet thinking I got A.
or rarer but equally iritating
2. When I flop a flush and the turn is the same suit, and everybody folds because they haven't got any of that suit.

I guess the thing is that sometimes you can slow-play hoping for others peoples hand to get a little better and the turn can just give them another reason to fold.

http://www.philivey.com/phil-ivey-tips.php?learntips=58
mtdesmoines
QUOTE (KennyMatch @ Friday, June 29th, 2007, 8:36 AM) *


Me and Phil Ivey is poker geniuses.
whiterice714
QUOTE (KennyMatch @ Friday, June 29th, 2007, 9:36 AM) *
i was reading this about ten minutes ago.

I found it interesting and think it is relevant here.

This kind of thing has happened to me a lot
1. When I make a set, the turn puts an A on and everybody folds to my bet thinking I got A.
or rarer but equally iritating
2. When I flop a flush and the turn is the same suit, and everybody folds because they haven't got any of that suit.

I guess the thing is that sometimes you can slow-play hoping for others peoples hand to get a little better and the turn can just give them another reason to fold.

http://www.philivey.com/phil-ivey-tips.php?learntips=58



i think you should just be happy w/ winning the pot & having your opponents underestimate you...


tell you this though, if' i'm in LP w/ Adxx & flop comes Jd 4d 3d... and you slow play your flush... i'll gladly let you ship the rest of em in when you get angry @ a reraise on the turn after the 6d rolls off & your Qd10d is now pretty much high class garbage...


the only time i see slow playing as a good option is when you're OOP & you flop the stone cold nuts... but even still, i like to put in a bet here (unless i'm in the pot w/ a notorious LAGer who looooooooooooves to bet everything everytime..)


but i'll still do it just to change it up once in a while ;]
CobaltBlue
As the others have noted, this is a decent spot for donkbetting.
GeneralGeeWhiz
A bet into the raiser in this situation is very important. It lets you know where you stand in the hand (you're pretty sure you have the best hand) I don't mind check and slow playing, but make a smaller bet on the river and hope for a bluff raise.
aim786
Actually, many ppl are suggesting that I was slowplaying, which is not the reason I checked. I checked to the PF raiser so he would bet, and then I could c/r the field. This is the best way to play the hand in limit, but I realize now that it'll give my hand away completely. Furthermore, people are more afraid to cbet in NL I find, so donking on the flop is most likely the best play in NL.
Money022
Lead the flop and expect to get called by Ax. The turn seems to have killed the action.
CobaltBlue
QUOTE (aim786 @ Saturday, June 30th, 2007, 2:07 AM) *
Actually, many ppl are suggesting that I was slowplaying, which is not the reason I checked. I checked to the PF raiser so he would bet, and then I could c/r the field. This is the best way to play the hand in limit, but I realize now that it'll give my hand away completely. Furthermore, people are more afraid to cbet in NL I find, so donking on the flop is most likely the best play in NL.

I think you've hit upon it. "Trapping the field" with this hand on this flop is a great idea in a LHE setting. However, it betrays the strength of your hand too much in NL and doesn't build the pot as you'd like. Think of it this way...let's say the PFR does his thing and gets check-raised by one of the players...they're usually going to know exactly where you're at when you flat call or re-raise that action.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.