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Full Version: Value Bet Trips On The River Oop?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
GabeTheKid
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($189.15)
SB ($207.65)
BB ($503.40)
UTG ($200.10)
Hero ($259.05)
CO ($264.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, Button calls $6, SB calls $5, 1 fold.

Flop: ($20) A, 5, 6 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, Button calls $12, SB folds.

Turn: ($44) A (2 players)
Hero bets $32, Button calls $32.

River: ($108) T (2 players)
[color=#CC3333]Hero ?

the T kind of scared me because AT was one of the most likely holdings I put him on. Now, his stats are 36/17/.83...what's our best line here?
Royal_Tour
QUOTE (GabeTheKid @ Wednesday, June 13th, 2007, 9:20 PM) *
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)



the T kind of scared me because AT was one of the most likely holdings I put him on. Now, his stats are 36/17/.83...what's our best line here?



i actually put villain on a boat on the turn.

5,5 6,6 A,5 or A,6.

the way its been played, i dont see many draws out there except 7,8. and u wont get paid off from 7.8 since it missed completely

and if i remember PT stats correctly, it looks like villain is loose preflop, but not so much post flop?

I check call most bets on the river.
Snamuh
Check/call river. Villain could have a full house here. Or he could have a hand like AQ/AJ. I don't think villain has A7-A9 here enough to justify a value bet.
litlebullet
I'd open farrell here.
Webslinger516
Check/call. What else can you do? Check/folding would be really weak here. Bet/folding would suck. I don't see any other option than to check and call a reasonable bet.
Scott3705
In everyone's opinion, what's the difference between check/calling and bet/folding. I'm more inclined to check/call if villian may slow play to the river with a worse ace which may make us face a river raise and have to fold the best hand some times. If I thought villian is going to raise the turn with an ace, I'd rather bet/fold this since i'll almost never think I'm folding the best hand on the river in this case.
Webslinger516
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Thursday, June 14th, 2007, 7:00 AM) *
In everyone's opinion, what's the difference between check/calling and bet/folding. I'm more inclined to check/call if villian may slow play to the river with a worse ace which may make us face a river raise and have to fold the best hand some times. If I thought villian is going to raise the turn with an ace, I'd rather bet/fold this since i'll almost never think I'm folding the best hand on the river in this case.


This is what sucks about being out of position. A scare card peels off on the river, and now you're stuck wondering what to do. I prefer check/calling with a strong hand that's vulnerable to the river card, like we have in this situation. I'd like to see a showdown and get paid if he didn't suck out on me. I bet/fold when i don't think the river helped and I'm value betting, but then a raise from a solid player shows me that I was wrong in thinking I had the best hand and I fold. I don't always plan on folding to a raise when I bet the river though... I'll call if the story he's telling doesn't make sense or if the player gives off a tell or if the player is overall tricky stupid.
Snamuh
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Thursday, June 14th, 2007, 10:00 AM) *
In everyone's opinion, what's the difference between check/calling and bet/folding. I'm more inclined to check/call if villian may slow play to the river with a worse ace which may make us face a river raise and have to fold the best hand some times. If I thought villian is going to raise the turn with an ace, I'd rather bet/fold this since i'll almost never think I'm folding the best hand on the river in this case.


Check/calling can induce a bluff from a busted draw (like 78). If you bet/fold, you also aren't getting any information for future play with this villain and have invested roughly the same amount.
Acid_Knight
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Thursday, June 14th, 2007, 7:00 AM) *
In everyone's opinion, what's the difference between check/calling and bet/folding.

I'm not terribly afraid of AT here.

The difference between check/calling and bet/folding is that with the c/c we guarantee that we go to showdown and we give him a chance to bluff or value bet worse hands, both of which are the same as far as we are concerned.

In this case, I'm checking becuase he's either got Ax, a boat or nothing. If we check, he will value bet with Ax or the boat like 100% of the time thinking it's good. He may even choose to bluff if he did have 78. This way we get value for our hand and lose the minimum if we're behind while still making sure we reach the showdown.
Scott3705
QUOTE (Snamuh @ Thursday, June 14th, 2007, 7:57 AM) *
Check/calling can induce a bluff from a busted draw (like 78). If you bet/fold, you also aren't getting any information for future play with this villain and have invested roughly the same amount.


I think I sort of immediately assumed we don't find many bluffs out of him cause of his aggression factor.

I also confused the action a lot and thought villian was the preflop raiser and had a line that could have been some sort of underpair trying to get to showdown.

Agree with all. C/C
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