I really enjoy michael moores movies and this one is definately no different.
It really opens your eyes as to how backwards certain things are. If i was an american watching this movie i would be sick to my stomache, in fact i am canadian and i felt sick to my stomache for you.

In this one he deals with the health care system and how rediculous it is in america.

Really is a must see!!

I want to move to france that is just sick!


Anyways it hasnt come out in the States yet, but it is in canada.

If you really want to see it PM me and maybe we can work somthing out as i got a really good copy on here!

Might skip this one......yea probably for the best

Wait, let me get this straight. You're a canadian, making fun of/agreeing that the health care system in the states is screwed up?

Now that is hilarious. If you blindly believe what MM says in his documentary propaganda, I feel sorry for you.

I'm in the healthcare industry, and have only heard excerpts of this, and I can't begin to tell you how off base he is. Much like the propaganda he calls his other work, he cherry picks different facts and takes things out of context, just to try and prove a point.

Would you care to discuss any of the points that he makes?

On a related note, what did you think of "Bowling for Columbine" and "Fahrenheit 9/11"?

FWIW, you shouldn't really be dissing the healthcare system of the US being in canada and all. Just sayin'

Where did anyone "make fun of" anything? Patriotism is all fine and dandy but you are overly sensitive when it comes to the USA. No country is perfect and that includes the USA. I suggest you pop a couple of Midol and check out the film before you labal it propoganda.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on why the Canadian health care system is so bad.

I liked Bowling For Columbine... until he went to Charlton Heston's house at the end which made me hate him.

Farenheit 9/11 made me hate him more.

Now it seems like his goal is to make an a_ss of himself to prove a point. I'll probably give in and see this movie, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be really angry after watching it.

That's a ridiculous notion.

ROFL

The guy has destroyed his reputation as an objective film maker.
Sicko could be spot on accurate with no propaganda or POV mixed in, but Moore himself has tainted it with his previous "documentaries".

You reap what you sow, Mr Moore.

true, canada's healthcare system is so horrible, screwed-up, expensive and exclusionary that canadian citizens should not be able to discuss the system of other countries.

lollerskates.

moore makes a lot of terrible arguments, and often makes contentious points using cherry-picked statistics. many of his strongest points in previous movies are nearly meaningless considering how superficially he discusses them. but he also points out important issues and addresses points and areas that are often ignored. don't ignore him just because he's easy to argue against and disagrees with you.

I have had mostly Republican views for most of my life. I actually liked most of Bowling for Columbine. While it was obviously biased towards his anti-gun viewpoint, he presented his views in a fairly logical and witty manner. Like a previous poster said, I thought he was out of line going to Heston's house, that just made him seem Petty and childish.

I had to watch Fahrenheit 9/11 for a paper I did for my English class last year. If it was treated for what it was, a blatant anti-Bush propaganda film then I would be fine with it. The fact that it was touted as a documentary was appalling. A documentary is supposed to have a somewhat objective filmmaker. I actually timed it out and Michael Moore was talking for something like 35% of Fahrenheit 9/11. He had over 10 members of Congress do interviews for him, one of them was a Republican, and as he spoke (for 12 seconds) Moore put text on the screen mocking what he was saying.

If you support his viewpoints, you can watch his movies and probably feel more reason behind your cause. However, if you think that he can provide objective information about American society, you are dead wrong.

The tone of the OP seems to criticize the healthcare system of the US, and even goes as far as calling it ridiculous.

This is what I was referring to as 'making fun', and I stand by that.

You are right in saying that I'm patriotic, but your reasoning is incorrect. No country is perfect, especially when talking about healthcare. The fact that the OP lives under a system of socialized medicine and says he feels sick to his stomach speaks volumes that (s)he doesn't really know much about either system.

I'll post later about what I think of the Canadian system, but I need to confirm some references.

Canadians making fun of the healthcare system of the US while ignoring or not being educated about their own is ridiculous. Forgive me for not being more concise.


I didn't say that canadians shouldn't be allowed to discuss this, but I certainly feel that they should have a firm grasp of their own system before criticizing ours. I completely agree with your last paragraph, except for the fact that 'he points out important issues and addresses points and areas that are often ignored'. I disagree that he brings up points that are often ignored. I ignore him for the reasons you gave, he cherry picks facts, takes things out of context, and is totally biased and one sided.

The only good thing Michael Moore has ever done is direct the video for Rage Against the Machine's "Sleep Now in the Fire". Even so, actually seeing his morbidly obese form in the video makes it less cool.

To be fair C-Dub, he did a great service to me and University of Michigan fans everywhere by wearing his Michigan State hat everywhere making them look worse than they already do.

General Poker Forum is really the only section of FCP I post in so hey...

I just downloaded a DVD quality copy of 'Sicko'...Michael Moore's new movie outlining how jacked up the U.S. Health Care system is. (haven't watched it yet but I opened the file when it was done...crystal clear copy with perfect audio)

Anyway, point is that I guess it's not out in theaters until June 29th but there are copies on the net already.

All of the sudden it hit me.....

I think Michael Moore knew full well that it would get leaked (ahead of its theatrical release date) and was probably behind getting it leaked in the first place.

This guy is brilliant....he sure knows how to fire up a buzz on his movies. always inspiring controversy and forcing us all to discuss hard issues. what a great PR move if he actually said...'get it on the net two weeks before it comes out in theaters' LOL I honestly don't think he gives a flying f**k about profit. This guy is an activist in every sense of the word. Its a miracle the Bush administration hasn't dispatched a fleet of black Ford Explorers to his house in the middle of the night to wipe him out.

As far as I am concerned Michael Moore is a true patriot. He has been accused of a lot of things, but the bottom line is the guy is all about free speech and exposing flaws in our society...he may have a 'spin' behind his views that could be considered leftist....but at the very least he steps up to the mic.

This is a video of him essentially endorsing online piracy

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=1762

michael moore is a complete ****ing moron and should be killed.

i'm not bitter or anything...

lmao.

ya think???

That fat f*ck is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Follow the money...he makes a ton off of his so called "films".

He has enough money. I think it is about him haveing a soap box to stand on and say his views.

just watch the video dorks. http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=1762 The theme of this thread is directed at the fact that I think its a good possibility that he leaked a copy to get on the net 2 weeks before the theatrical release to pump up the buzz on this movie even more before mister and mrs nuclear fat f**k in wichita kansas goes to the theater to see it.

This is a great PR move any way you slice it.

I'm set on seeing this since I work with health insurance. I wouldn't be surprised if what most of the movie covered is true. Our health insurance situation is truly disgusting.

Michael Moore is a liar.

Somebody wake up Balloon Guy. His imput is needed.

i generally don't like fat people. i also don't like people who are very political. you put the two together and i really dont like him.

elaborate ? Please explain how he is a 'liar'. I'd be interested to discuss this if you have any facts to back up your thoughtful one word response with some measure of evidence/quotes/contradictions/documented perjury etc. Just flinging out 'he is a liar' doesn't hold much water unless you back it up with some substance...links....anything.

and again the reason I posted this wasn't to put Michael Moore's politics/motivation on center stage. I just thought that its great that his movie is on the net 2 weeks before the theatrical release. Very very saavy ploy IMO and I don't think its money motivated.

eberyone remember to be "open Minded" about this topic no wars plz

TY Fitz

I know he lied in the columbine movie, or at least portrayed a lie, by cutting and splicing speeches from Charlton Heston to sound like he was saying something he didn't. He used multiple stills and cuts in and out of Heston speaking to pull it off. If I remember correctly, when you are watching heston speak as the stills are being cut in and out, the crowds actually are different. Been a while though, and I didn't bother with the 9/11 movie. Anyone who can remotely try to say that the government had some involvement in letting that happen is obviously not smart enough to have an intelligent conversation with.

JS

He's a complete spinster. His documentaries often bring up good points, but Moore is lazy and twists the truth to better make his point. The man is proving to a publicity mastermind. Although self-leaking isn't exactly innovative.

I also like the point someone made about him "making a lot of money" off of the documentaries. No ****! Got anymore brilliant insight into the motives of Mr. Moore? Sometimes I get the notion that he is trying to push a liberal agenda, would you agree?

thats pretty much a no brainer...but nevertheless he does thrust important issues into the limelight which need to be discussed by Americans of both political spectrums.

Is there an implication here that by producing and directing 'Bowling For Columbine' and shedding light on the handgun homicide epidemic this country has...that his agenda is 'liberal' simply because he put this issue into the national spotlight ?

I don't think the topics of his movies have any political agenda....even if he does.

Some of his points totally lack common sense and can potentially ruin freedoms for the US, However on the other hand some of his opinions do enlighten alot of people on how Government in the US is making a mockery of democracy, and how they do as much shady stuff for the dollar as criminals.


Like him or hate him: Dont know dont care. However people with opinions to like or hate I think are not being open minded enough to see both sides that his movies represent.

Not sure what you mean by that, but his movies are very far from objective. They are probably better
characterized as propaganda rather than "documentaries". They belong on the shelf right next to Reefer Madness.

Not really caring about this topic but just have to ask How Reefer Madness is propaganda? Reefer Madness is a documentry if I ever saw one, to be right next to it, it should be the same Right? Its not because it is in alphabetical order or anything..

yup, conservatives and educated liberals alike despise michael more. the only people who put any weight into what he says are uninformed

You serious? No s/w? We talkin about the same Reefer Madness here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness

Yeah, this is absolutely valid justification for posting about movies/politics in here. Oh wait...the opposite of that...it's a completely BS excuse.

Any link to the movie?

PS: Nice Freak Brothers pic.

Its how you look at it.. If you say everyone that smokes will die or bad things happens it may be propraganda, it's in the eye of the viewer. If you say these people were just unfortunate than its a documentry...

Bottom line its a matter of what the viewer takes from it not the film maker. The guy that made Aliens doesnt have to believe in Aliens to make a movie and make money. But if the movie has insite that they do exist its still upto the viewer to use their judgment and make a decision.


Trust me I am not for His movies but I am for some of the things his movies do. This argument can go on forever and I am sure it will. So I am leaving it alone .

Actually, no. It's not in the eye of the viewer, it's false. The things in the film never actually happened.
Marijuana does not induce people into murderous rages.

The government made this film to convince the public of something which isn't true because they believed it
was in their interest to do so. I guess it worked on you?

Aliens was fiction. If Michael Moore presented his work as fiction, that would be a different scenario. If instead, you present it as a documentary, and you show edited clips which mislead the viewer into thinking something happened which didn't, then you are in the realm of propaganda.

No I make my own opinions. I am all for legalization etc.. Bottom line is this country is too busy being followers and not individuals. And the government wants us to be that way. Films can be one side oriented but America needs to smarten up or we will continue the downward spiral to listen and believe everything we watch, read, or are told!

Thats my point. I am not either way but Just think for yourself is my point

this mindset truly baffles me

regardless of Michael Moore's alleged political agenda...he continues to inspire discussion on important issues which threaten the livelyhood of our country as a whole

What I find so disturbing is that so many of the people who are quick to dismiss MM as a 'spinster' are quick to brush under the rug the FACTS in each of his films and dismiss them as part of some contrived effort to spin a liberal agenda.

I totally and 100% agree that his films and his agenda are liberal.....but the point here is that the topics that he has worked so hard to bring to the forefront of mainstream discussion are important issues that have no partisan element.

There are more than enough facts and flaws in our system outlined.... that are worthy of national discussion highlighted in each of his films.

Even if he got on 'Anderson Cooper 360' or 'Meet The Press' and said 'hey Im a facist' I could care less....The issues that his films force us to discuss in public forums pretty much negate whatever 'agenda' you think he has

The notion that he 'spun' Bowling For Columbine'as a left wing anti gun/anti GOP agenda film is f**king ridiculous....Look at the facts regarding handgun homicides in this U.S. compared to every other country on this planet. The numbers are truly mind boggling. I won't bother to dig up numbers which anyone can easily google for themselves.

The issues that MM has brought front and center shoudn't be a liberal/conservative discussion. (in a perfect world I guess) But somehow the conservative base and GOP lemmings are so quick to label MM as a wacko and a spinster

Whatever you may think of MM and his agenda...he raises valid points and makes us all think about issues we should be paying close attention to. That much is certain. Even if he is a 'spinster' as the right wingers and neo ultra conservatives are so fond of labeling him as.....I don't even care. If the guy was a purple headed alien he still says 'HEY !! look at how f**ked up this is' I would listen and say 'hey this guy makes some good points'. This has got nothing to do with political affiliation, left or right wing agenda....this is about issues....and MM makes us think about them whether you like it or not

Can we please ban OP already? He contributes nothing to FCP.

Yes this belongs in Off Topic, Yes I havent agreed with some of the OP's Posts, But should he be banned No not for this..

cough cough

I stated in my original post that the reason I posted it in General Poker Forum is because this is pretty much the only section I post in...I don't know any of the regulars in OT and was hoping to inspire a discussion here where I have been posting. The title of my post was my disclaimer. If the mods see fit to relocate this thread I have no problems with that I just wanted to fire up a discussion/debate with people I have talked to before instead of this thread getting buried before it started. anyway whatever the mods decide is cool by me.

Michael moore is a P.O.S. and I would not be upset if he died tomorrow in a horrible plane crash (the pilots surviving on some miracle.)

He distorts the truth, only follows up leads supporting his own agenda, and is overall a complete bag of deuche.

40 and a shovel

I dont have that big of a problem with this thread. I feel that OP should have been banned before this for the collective whole of his posts. This thread just adds to the trash he normally posts.