the villain in the hand is a very good regular, and won about a grand off me 2 days ago at heads up 5 10 NL. i feel his range is pretty narrow here. what do people like here?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

SB: $2,643.60
BB: $1,542.00
UTG: $2,429.70
MP: $1,047.00
CO: $200.00
Hero (BTN): $1,465.00

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with
UTG raises to $35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $120, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: ($255, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $225, UTG raises all-in $2309.7, hero...........

If villain is as tight as you say he is I fold.

You're beating QQ right now, and Ax of hearts. (Although you'll have to dodge a lot of outs if he has the nut flush draw.)


You're crushed by AA or JJ.

Let it go. Find a better spot.

What is your image? If we fold this frequently because villian is a regular we're probably heading down a path of weak/tight because these are the kind of flops we hope for when we 3 bet KK.

I don't think he has JJ because I think he would cold call or reraise a normal amount usually. This is AA sometimes but can easily be QQ or something like AQhh. I think your image and villian's image is very important here. He is playing this a lot like bad players normally play a flush draw. I think based on how much is in the pot a call is profitable in the long run unless villian is nittish.

seems like he has a three here, otherwise would he push? I don't think so.


(this is bad advice)

Villian is almost never raising a 3 here UTG and then calling a 3 bet with it.

I call this. I think we're almost always ahead in this situation.

I think we're really only behind when he has AA here.

Wow this is as tough as it gets. So the only question you have to ask yourself is... how sure are you that he has QQ? Also, how sure are you that he'd make this move with QQ, seeing as the only thing he beats is AK, AQ, AJ?

I sure as hell wouldn't be sure enough to call this bet. I fold and cry a little.

Unless of course he puts you on AA or KK.... which brings up the next question. Your image. Could he put you on KK/AA here pretty easily?

If so, I'd say fold. If there is the slight possibility that he thinks u cant get away from aces or kings. ur screwed. which is why he is pushing. If he holds AA/JJ he has nothing to worry about if he puts you on AA/KK/QQ

If he has QQ, he's probably check/calling check/calling. check/folding to a A or K that hits.

This is NL 6 max. His range doesn't have to be AA-QQ here. Your raise preflop is also rather large, so he might put you on a hand like AK. You also potted a relatively harmless flop, which kind of backs up that you might not want action.

His range needs to include AA-QQ (I don't think anyone plays JJ like this) as well as hands like AQhh and even some other suited hearts since you're both pretty deep, he'd have the right implied odds to call preflop.

Folding here is really weak unless you have a super strong read here. You have the Kh, so he can't have AKhh, but he easily has AQhh, QQ or the other KK.

If he's got AA and make this huge massive crazy overbet, good for him. He's gonna show up with a heart draw or QQ or something else enough to make calling here profitable.

i am still learning pokertracker, but the stats are 24.3/14.1/1.4. also, when i say hes a good player, at 5 10 NL shorthanded, that does not mean he is nittish. it means the exact opposite. From my experiences in the last week playing 5 10 NL compared to 2 4 NL that i used to play, i would say 5 10 NL is a lot more laggish and 3 betting from good regulars.

My image is very loose by the way, and i am positive he views me as very loose since we played heads up for a while a couple days ago and he witnessed how i play heads up. also, to acid knight, the raise might seem large, but i pressed bet pot preflop. it really is pretty standard for a preflop 3 bet. i fastplayed it on the flop because i wanted him to play back at me, and because i wanted to rep AK. but his CR AI is a huge play. does anyone think people play 44 to 10 10 like this? how often do people have air here?

Would you shovel QQ if u were villain?

i dunno much about 5-10NL. i really cant see it playing the same way as 1/2 or 2/4

so with that in mind, would 48BB's (480) be worth stealing with air vs you?

i wouldnt think so, but thats why i'm grinding

Feels more like a protection bet. I would call.

Royal - If I'm the villain and I think the Hero will call with worse than QQ and that he doesn't show up with AA or KK here that often, yeah, I'll push QQ and let him try and make a hero call. It wouldn't be my default move, but people do stupid things with overpairs.

Roberts - This is rarely ever air. I have seen people make this move with 88-TT plenty of times. I think it's a flush draw WAY more often than it is a middle pair. I think you gotta instacall this, and live with results, especially if you have any kind of laggy image.

Maybe he saw that hand where Roberts called a huge all in with, like, 99 after being re-raised preflop and bet into on the flop and turn on an A-high board?

He's value-pushing with 88 expecting a call from AK.

I think you basically answered your own question here. He isn't a nit, you are LAG, and obviously your 3 bet range is probably kind of large. Also, 1.4 AF is kinda nittish actually. Most aggressive players run at at least 2-3 for this stat.

You got what he wanted, he fastplayed it back at you, now just call. For some reason it sounds like you didn't get the result you wanted but calling is +EV in the long run here.

Wow this is a very tough hand. I don't play this high but I'm guessing this is QQ or a flush draw wayyyyyyyyyyyy more than JJ, AA, or a 3. I definitely think I have to call here.

AJ does this when he thinks he's up against AK.

Otherwise, I'm totally puzzled.

He played this like AA. So I fold. However, maybe QQ plays it the same, but most people are cautious when getting 3bet with QQ.

I don't know that we can say this is AA. Competent villain flat called our PF raise?

i talked with roberts and naismith on aim and we really thought calling here is the right play a very high % of the time.

he plays to lag to 'afford' folding this monster...i also agree, if someone said it before, that AA 4bets here pf probably.

- Jordan

Ohhh I was under the impression that Villain was TAG/Nitty. If both your images are LAG, this isn't an insta-fold like I thought it was. There is a very good chance this is a flush draw or QQ. Still... I dunno how good I'd feel about making this call. I'd call and cry either way... not sure if they'd be tears of joy or of sadness.

why? If i hold AA after getting 3-bet in a HU situation, i might just smooth call. It opens up my range, and hands like AK, QQ start to wonder if i'm capable of playing AQ,JJ, now.

If you are heads up against a very loose player when you are both semi deep, wouldn't you 4 bet AA out of position?

I'm sure we've all been in this situation and run into aces.

I think in order of frequency:

Flush draw
QQ
AA
AJ
JJ
Mid-pair

Depends on whether you're re-raising me preflop a lot.

I had a guy re-raise me quite often preflop and he certainly wasn't always doing it with monsters. Twice I had AA/KK and he folded to my re-re-raise. Finally, the third time it dawned on me...raise/call, check/raise.

That way was more fun. And by fun, I mean profitable.

haha, alright. its just that my long heads up match with him as well as my current table image probably would lead him to think that i WOULD call a 4 bet with a PP or SCs. i have 150BB at beginning of hand and he has me covered. if he really wants to win a big pot, shouldn't he start getting as much $ as he can in preflop against a lag fish like me?

Obviously. But you're certainly not getting it all in with 9s8s, right? On the other hand, you might re-raise preflop with it and fire out a flop c-bet. He doesn't know you have KK here, remember.

Ive seen it so many times. At this level, 4 betting is essentially playing your hand faceup, while calling still has a wider range. This is an exact situation Ive been in, where villian decides to put it all in on a weird flop, when I have expressed PF strength. He knows what we have, and he expects a call a large % of the time here, as for anyone KK here isnt the easiet fold.

Sh and HU, though ... a lot of hands tend to push PF. If someone is willing to 3 bet, they're probably calling my AIPF.

no offense, but this is absolutely not true at SH or HE. 3 betting ranges are almost as wide, if not as wide, as opening raises. Just because someone 3 bets does not at all mean they have a hand worthy of AIPF. this is not meant to be a brag, but here is a hand where i 3 bet preflop and bet flop and turn with absolutely nothing.
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1161206

i posted this hand just now to demonstrate how light 3 betting is. so saying 3 betting=calling AIPF is just flat out wrong at SH and HU.

1. I don't play $5/10 HU, but I can tell you at lower limits ($1/2 HU), it's absolutely true that the PF pushing range is very broad. Once you go DSed, then it changes a little. But not much.

2. I don't know that this is the same situation. On the other hand, if villain is capable of going as light as you did PF in this hand, then it's easy for him to have a 3 and know you can't fold KK/AA

3. CALLING AIPF is a lot different than going AIPF. Now I have to review what I said ...


EDIT: OK, I said a a lot of hands tend to PUSH AIPF. I didn't say a broad range of hands CALLED AIPF. Now, we were talking relevant to my argument that AA would go AIPF. Why would AA choose to go AI after flop, when it resisted PF?

Resultsssssssss?

me response is pretty much what these two nerds wrote.

how did the hand go Roberts?

I don't need him to post results. The way this hand played, it is exactly QQ, guaranteed. Nice pot, OP.

I'm laggy and I fold this like never.

Mark

damn Naismith, how DID you know??? results are the villain had QQ and KK held in a 3K pot. i still think this is a very tough spot, and QQ is literally the only hand we dominate at the moment, maybe like AJ suited as well. guys watch out for Naismith though. Even before i had called his all in, he IMed me and insisted that I should call with my KK to beat his QQ. ladies and gentleman, that is one world class read.

Get villian on your buddy list...he plays really bad.

my thoughts exactly

Roberts,

your post about him being a reallly good regular is obv flawed

i dont think he made a bad play. in his mind i could stack off with a jack or worse. also, he is defintely one of the better players at 5 10 NL. having QQ to KK here is a pretty big cooler in my mind.

Keep in mind, this is the guy who told me his opponent was coolered when his A5 ran into Roberts' J9 on a J5x board.

Ok aside from you having a jack and stacking off, which IMO would be pretty hard, considering he overbet this pot grossly, he usually gets called by hands that beat him, and loses the maxium, or lets you get away from the weaker hand.

Lets say you hold KJ or AJ in that spot....are you calling, honestly? Cause if the answer is yes..then I guess theres justification, but you don't seem like the player who would do so, from what I gather from your posts.

judging someone's total game from one hand is pretty funny.

- Jordan

well if u play overpairs badly, you usually are bad.

FYP

Mark

Exactly my thoughts and my experiences are the same. Instacall. I mean what flop are you hoping for...? And secondly you are not thaaaat deepstacked. In Live play this would be a very different story, where you can see people and get them to talk. But online is online... I recently saved me a few thousand dollars in a situation like you were in, but it was live, and I saw how this guy was satisfied with his hand and I folded my KK on 247 Board, he then showed me his Aces. But ONLINE you dont have that ability, so I'm telling you push the chips in the middle, with this harmless flopp. What are you losing to tight right now? JJ/ AA and a 3. But you are beating so many other hands. QQ, AJ, some kind of draw (was the flop suited? Idont know anymore), TT and so forth. So again, online = instapush.

flop K,Q,4 is a cooler in my mind.

an over pair stack off, is just that. shoveling all your chips in with an over pair.

not something i usually do when my stack is healthy vs a competent player.

I really dont see you playing AJ or KJ, and I've seen bad players get away from TP, so i would expect you could too. which is why i dont understand villains c/r all in.

yes. and everyone plays perfect all the time.

- Jordan

No, its not that, i'm just looking at it from my perspective.

boiled down to my limits (with a competent group of 200NL players for example)

I'd have roughly 300, and villain easily covers @ 1/2

Not "deep stacks" but doin ok.

The way it was played it seems that villain puts roberts on AK,AQ AJ,KJ. (10,10??) but he has no idea because he hasnt found anything out. which is where we get the "bad player" vibe from.