Royal_Tour 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 The other day i ran into a situation that made me think.... hmm should I say something about ethics here??I'm playing live NL cash game at my local casino. I've been playing there for a while, and i've played several casino's and every low limit game is the same. Some people who dont know al the rules, and act out of turn. whether it be folding, or calling or raising.Now, for us players who take odds and stacks into effect, knowing who is going to fold behind you would be valuable info. And i see it all the time where some guy is thinking of calling a bet, the player behind him is tired and waiting and just mucks before the other guy calls a bet. No one really says much, the dealer might mention to him to wait next time.The situation that came up was myself and 2 others in a hand. I had a nice drawing hand, and the 1st player to act was short stacked and pushed all in.I was pretty sure all my outs were live, but there was a regular left to act after me. He's a solid player, but I didnt have him on a narrow range. He could easily be drawing to a bigger Flush, etc.. and I'd be giving him a good price to call with a drawBut as i was thinking this, i looked at him.He had his cards in his fingers extended towards the muck, a Real easy sign saying. Hey...I'm gonna fold.I'm a young guy, and look really young ,and he is easily late 40's. I wasnt sure if its my place to say anything? should I just take the info he gives and wait for someone else to complain?**Edit: He WAS intentionally giving me the info cuz he knew me as a regular and wanted me to know he was folding Link to post Share on other sites
Jdr999 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I would say nothing. Only time I would say anything is if they mucked out of turn before I, or anyone else had acted.These are called tells, use them to your advantage. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I don't see why you would consider saying anything. Clearly he has a live tell that you are able to exploit. This would be the same thing as him showing frustration on his face every time he was weak. Link to post Share on other sites
Dapper Dan G 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 it's not your job to police the table. just take what you can get from it, and don't feel guilty. Link to post Share on other sites
chrozzo 19 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 i would just stay quiet and thank him in your mind for "helping" you out Link to post Share on other sites
A_Bullets_A 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 You shouldn't say anything about that. Lots of people do that. Also, I've seen a lot of people do it on purpose if they know you're watching that. Be careful. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 49 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 It's not a "tell" if he is intentionally giving you info.It's hard to tell from your description -- did you think he was trying to communicate to you that he was folding? Link to post Share on other sites
chrozzo 19 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 did u win the hand? Link to post Share on other sites
pckt10s 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 maybe he was deaking you... Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 I would say nothing. Only time I would say anything is if they mucked out of turn before I, or anyone else had acted.These are called tells, use them to your advantage. I don't see why you would consider saying anything. Clearly he has a live tell that you are able to exploit. This would be the same thing as him showing frustration on his face every time he was weak.NO, He was intentionally giving me the info of him folding cuz he knew me as a regular and thought i was debatingIt's not a "tell" if he is intentionally giving you info.It's hard to tell from your description -- did you think he was trying to communicate to you that he was folding?Exactly, I know 100% he wanted me to know he was folding Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 49 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Exactly, I know 100% he wanted me to know he was foldingWell then that is definitely sketchy. I would probably wait for a 2nd offense before saying something, or maybe catch him away from the table. On the one hand you dont want to get the guy in trouble when he's trying to help you, on the other hand you can't let that happen. Link to post Share on other sites
AceJackOffS 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 i wouldn't say anything especially since he was trying to help you out Link to post Share on other sites
Chris E 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 He sounds like a nice guy Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Well then that is definitely sketchy. I would probably wait for a 2nd offense before saying something, or maybe catch him away from the table. On the one hand you dont want to get the guy in trouble when he's trying to help you, on the other hand you can't let that happen. i wouldn't say anything especially since he was trying to help you outYa, dont get me wrong, I like the idea of the free info, but I'm very much against any forms of collusion, and evn though we dont persnally plan things, He's looking like i'l scratch your back if you scratch mine. etc...which Is pretty much collusion Link to post Share on other sites
chaosnhavoc 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I wanted to just say "HI" and that I love your avatar Royal. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 69 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Obvious collusion on his part. If he does it again you can either cheat with him, or say something to him away from the table. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 I wanted to just say "HI" and that I love your avatar Royal.how did u make out in the 01.02 donkfest? Link to post Share on other sites
chaosnhavoc 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 how did u make out in the 01.02 donkfest?Up $36 or so.. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Up $36 or so..lol, niceknollie is up 156 righ tnow lol Link to post Share on other sites
chaosnhavoc 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 lol, niceknollie is up 156 righ tnow lolI know I want to get back in but the list hasnt shrunk at all...Edit: just checked it went down.. On the wait going to take his moneys Link to post Share on other sites
chaosnhavoc 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I am so mad need to get on the flips to vent so bad right now...PokerStars Game #10093732699: Tournament #51156390, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2007/05/25 - 02:49:03 (ET)Table '51156390 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: $upat (1115 in chips) Seat 2: chipless1953 (5327 in chips) Seat 3: + to the EV! (1560 in chips) Seat 4: New07 (1500 in chips) Seat 5: AgonyMuffin (1570 in chips) Seat 6: badnoseben (9720 in chips) Seat 7: chaos1313 (6235 in chips) Seat 8: TracyVe (2945 in chips) Seat 9: bsdutchman (3690 in chips) chaos1313: posts small blind 75TracyVe: posts big blind 150*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to chaos1313 [Ad Ac]bsdutchman: folds $upat: folds chipless1953: raises 150 to 300+ to the EV!: folds New07: raises 1200 to 1500 and is all-inAgonyMuffin: folds badnoseben: folds chaos1313: raises 1200 to 2700TracyVe: folds chipless1953: calls 2400*** FLOP *** [Qc 3c Ts]chaos1313: bets 3535 and is all-inchipless1953: calls 2627 and is all-in*** TURN *** [Qc 3c Ts] [8h]*** RIVER *** [Qc 3c Ts 8h] [Qh]*** SHOW DOWN ***chaos1313: shows [Ad Ac] (two pair, Aces and Queens)chipless1953: shows [Kh Qd] (three of a kind, Queens)chipless1953 collected 7654 from side potNew07: shows [9d Kd] (a pair of Queens)chipless1953 collected 4650 from main pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 12304 Main pot 4650. Side pot 7654. | Rake 0 Board [Qc 3c Ts 8h Qh]Seat 1: $upat folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: chipless1953 showed [Kh Qd] and won (12304) with three of a kind, QueensSeat 3: + to the EV! folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: New07 showed [9d Kd] and lost with a pair of QueensSeat 5: AgonyMuffin folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: badnoseben (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: chaos1313 (small blind) showed [Ad Ac] and lost with two pair, Aces and QueensSeat 8: TracyVe (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: bsdutchman folded before Flop (didn't bet) Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 I know I want to get back in but the list hasnt shrunk at all...Edit: just checked it went down.. On the wait going to take his moneysthe 01.02 players there are too stubborn to switch tables even though they get up like 4 buyins, then get busted by rags. lol rebuy, do it all again Link to post Share on other sites
chaosnhavoc 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Taking Knollies moneys Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Well I'd keep taking the free info if he keeps giving it to you.. but I wouldn't treat it as a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" snenario... don't give him any info, and eventually he'll learn to quit giving it to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Even knowing that the guy is doing it on purpose, I would leave it up to the dealer/casino to do something and not give anything in return for his "kindness." Link to post Share on other sites
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