6 replies to this topic

[strategy]

I know this is not worthy of anybody's time and I'm stupid for posting it, but I kind of want some thoughts on this.PokerStars Game #1542407581: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/04/18 - 00:50:59 (ET)Table 'Io' Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: SilentAcorns ($0.70 in chips)Seat 2: markmaz21 ($1 in chips)Seat 3: BRSSHOW ($4.53 in chips)Seat 4: smews1979 ($0.82 in chips)Seat 5: RxGuy1980 ($1.71 in chips)Seat 7: Dhall1981 ($2.10 in chips)Seat 8: Hero ($5.31 in chips)Seat 9: JerryHS ($0.90 in chips)smews1979: posts small blind $0.01RxGuy1980: posts big blind $0.02*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Hero [2d As Ah 4s]Dhall1981: calls $0.02Hero: raises $0.02 to $0.04I wanted a little more money in the pot in case I hit my "BINGO BANGO BONGO" type flop with my decent hand.JerryHS: foldsSilentAcorns: calls $0.04markmaz21: foldsBRSSHOW: calls $0.04smews1979: foldsRxGuy1980: calls $0.02Dhall1981: calls $0.024 callers. No surprise.*** FLOP *** [8s 3d 5h]RxGuy1980: checksDhall1981: bets $0.14Hero: calls $0.14OK. Here's my question. I've got a strangle on the low draw. At this point, I'm praying that an ace or a deuce hits to counterfeit, so I just call hoping that other stupid draws will hang in.SilentAcorns: foldsBRSSHOW: calls $0.14RxGuy1980: folds*** TURN *** [8s 3d 5h] [7d]Dhall1981: bets $0.32Hero: calls $0.32BRSSHOW: calls $0.32Again, hoping like heck for that ace or deuce. Was I wrong to call despite the amazingly obvious likelihood that I'll be getting quartered?*** RIVER *** [8s 3d 5h 7d] [9h]Dhall1981: bets $1.54Hero: calls $1.54No dice. I am resigned to my quartered fate and just hope that this is too much for the third guy to call. I think I was right to not re-raise, seeing as A2 will most certainly call a re-raise at these levels.[b]BRSSHOW: folds*** SHOW DOWN ***Dhall1981: shows [Jd 4c Ad 3c] (HI: a pair of Threes; LO: 7,5,4,3,A)What do you O/8 experts think? People from Europe, tell me how stupid I am at your game

[cdddc75]

Preflop: Minimum raising is certainly ok, but pot raising is probably better.Flop: Calling is fine. You have a counterfeit proof low, runner runner nut flush draw and 5 outs to a nut wheel.Turn: Folding is the correct play here. Your draws to the nut flush and nut straight are counterfeited, and a quartering seems most likely.River: If you commit at the turn, you might as well stay in at this point I suppose.Result: You were fortunate to be playing at low limits against a guy that has no clue how to play Omaha H/L. I think your self-analysis of this hand is very good. You have a solid understanding of the game. Just don't let this bad habit of calling while quartered become persistent. You will get crushed at higher levels doing this.

[strategy]

Is the chance of an ace or deuce hitting to counterfeit someone else's low a realistic thing to factor in? I just realized that I had 5 instead of 6 outs, because I had one of the cards in my hand (doh).Thanks for the advice. I'll be tinkering more with this as time goes on and will definitely move up. I started playing limit O/8 a while ago but got bored with the game. I like jamming with both the nut high and nut low only to have A2 call me and quarter him. PLO/8... such a great game!

[MrNiceGuy]

cdddc75 said:

Turn: Folding is the correct play here. Your draws to the nut flush and nut straight are counterfeited, and a quartering seems most likely.

I disagree; I think this is an automatic call at any microlimit level, unless you have observed that the bettor is extremely tight with his preflop hand selection and careful with his postflop play. (And, depending on how the other two players play, I may even consider a raise.) Reason: I think it is highly unlikely (although it is possible) that you are getting quartered here. The bettor likely has A2 OR a decent high, but he's very unlikely to have both; in that case his other two cards specifically must make a set or a straight or a good draw. And with most such hands, he would've reraised preflop to get more money in (that, or he's a bad enough player that he could easily have anything here). So presumably, either your A2 has him beat, or your AA is good for high, or possibly both. The caller behind you is also likely not strong both ways, or he would've raised the flop. If they're both going high, you'll take half the pot, and if they're both going low, you have a good shot to take half the pot or more. You're only screwed if one goes high and one goes low with A2, and even then you'll still get 1/4, so it won't be a total disaster, plus you have outs to an A, 2, or even possibly a 4 or a 6.Against quality opposition, you should be more concerned about the possibility of being quartered; but at anything under $1 (if not more), I would assume you're not facing a quality opponent until he proves otherwise. I like the call on the flop - you just called for value to try to encourage callers, and you got one. But if you would even consider folding on the turn, then I would advise raising on the flop instead of calling.

[cdddc75]

MrNiceGuy said:

cdddc75 said:

Turn: Folding is the correct play here. Your draws to the nut flush and nut straight are counterfeited, and a quartering seems most likely.

I disagree; I think this is an automatic call at any microlimit level, unless you have observed that the bettor is extremely tight with his preflop hand selection and careful with his postflop play. (And, depending on how the other two players play, I may even consider a raise.) Reason: I think it is highly unlikely (although it is possible) that you are getting quartered here. The bettor likely has A2 OR a decent high, but he's very unlikely to have both; in that case his other two cards specifically must make a set or a straight or a good draw. And with most such hands, he would've reraised preflop to get more money in (that, or he's a bad enough player that he could easily have anything here). So presumably, either your A2 has him beat, or your AA is good for high, or possibly both. The caller behind you is also likely not strong both ways, or he would've raised the flop. If they're both going high, you'll take half the pot, and if they're both going low, you have a good shot to take half the pot or more. You're only screwed if one goes high and one goes low with A2, and even then you'll still get 1/4, so it won't be a total disaster, plus you have outs to an A, 2, or even possibly a 4 or a 6.

I think at a higher limit one could expect one of the villains to split the low and the other guy to have the high. Calling wasn't horrible, but it would be somewhat -EV against good players.

MrNiceGuy said:

Against quality opposition, you should be more concerned about the possibility of being quartered; but at anything under $1 (if not more), I would assume you're not facing a quality opponent until he proves otherwise. I like the call on the flop - you just called for value to try to encourage callers, and you got one. But if you would even consider folding on the turn, then I would advise raising on the flop instead of calling.

Didn't give raising the flop much thought. That's a good idea, as you might only get called by a bare A2.I'd love to know what kind of garbage the river folder had.

[cdddc75]

strategy said:

Is the chance of an ace or deuce hitting to counterfeit someone else's low a realistic thing to factor in? I just realized that I had 5 instead of 6 outs, because I had one of the cards in my hand (doh).

5 outs after the flop = about a 20% chance of an ace or deuce hitting on one of the last two streets. The odds are probably almost good enough to justify playing a three handed pot.

[strategy]

MrNiceGuy said:

cdddc75 said:

Turn: Folding is the correct play here. Your draws to the nut flush and nut straight are counterfeited, and a quartering seems most likely.

I disagree; I think this is an automatic call at any microlimit level, unless you have observed that the bettor is extremely tight with his preflop hand selection and careful with his postflop play. (And, depending on how the other two players play, I may even consider a raise.) Reason: I think it is highly unlikely (although it is possible) that you are getting quartered here. The bettor likely has A2 OR a decent high, but he's very unlikely to have both; in that case his other two cards specifically must make a set or a straight or a good draw. And with most such hands, he would've reraised preflop to get more money in (that, or he's a bad enough player that he could easily have anything here). So presumably, either your A2 has him beat, or your AA is good for high, or possibly both. The caller behind you is also likely not strong both ways, or he would've raised the flop. If they're both going high, you'll take half the pot, and if they're both going low, you have a good shot to take half the pot or more. You're only screwed if one goes high and one goes low with A2, and even then you'll still get 1/4, so it won't be a total disaster, plus you have outs to an A, 2, or even possibly a 4 or a 6.Against quality opposition, you should be more concerned about the possibility of being quartered; but at anything under $1 (if not more), I would assume you're not facing a quality opponent until he proves otherwise. I like the call on the flop - you just called for value to try to encourage callers, and you got one. But if you would even consider folding on the turn, then I would advise raising on the flop instead of calling.

Seems like good advice to me. I really like that there are so many clueless people out there.I also really like the discussion this generated, so I'll be posting more hands as I encounter situations I think I might be facing often (and the strange ones along the way).The river folder really makes me scratch my head. I tried to tear his hand apart and all I can come up with is an overpair, or maybe 8s. No idea what the hell else he could have been playing.