Another 1/2 Live At The Borgata

[YBravo 0]

1/2 NL at Borgata3 limpers, I complete in the SB w/ 9c9h, BB checks. Pot=$10Flop: 7c 8c 10cI check, BB checks, EP checks, MP3 bets $15, Button folds, My action????I have about $650 in front of me (after stacking three opponents ), and MP3 has about $1200 in front of him. He said he'd been playing for a long time. This guy was super aggressive post-flop and had been betting at a lot of pots, so this bet could really mean just about anything. He hasn't been betting too much with air, so it's likely he has a piece of the flop. My image is very tight, having only shown A-K, A-A, A-K, and a set of deuces.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Since you don't have position and he bet into a number of players, I'd just smooth call this and see what happens on the turn. You both have waaay too many chips for you to be wanting to raise here. Just take one off and see what happens. I'd probably fold on the turn if I don't improve and he makes another strong bet becuase it's too likely that he has a hand like JcTx and you're drawing slim.

[mtdesmoines 2]

1/2 NL at Borgata3 limpers, I complete in the SB w/ 9c9h, BB checks. Pot=$10Flop: 7c 8c 10cI check, BB checks, EP checks, MP3 bets $15, Button folds, My action????I have about $650 in front of me (after stacking three opponents ), and MP3 has about $1200 in front of him. He said he'd been playing for a long time. This guy was super aggressive post-flop and had been betting at a lot of pots, so this bet could really mean just about anything. He hasn't been betting too much with air, so it's likely he has a piece of the flop. My image is very tight, having only shown A-K, A-A, A-K, and a set of deuces.

Raise to $45. We want to be paid.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Raise to $45. We want to be paid.

Not to be an ass or anything, but paid for what? We have an OESFD and a pair of 9s. One guy bet into 4 opponents. Our action doesn't close anything and there are 2 players behind us still to act. It's likely that even against the lone opponent betting, that neither our pair of 9s nor the flush draw is going to win the pot for us currently. I'd rather be making a straight on the turn than a flush with this hand. The bigger consideration is the fact that we are both so deep in chips. I would not want to start building this pot OOP with our hand.Our hand is very mediocre. Even if we make a flush (not the straight flush) we're only getting action if we're losing. Our implied odds suck and the reverse implied odds are huge.

[Scott3705 0]

no chance in just folding here possibly drawing to two and change outs? I can't really be comfortable if i hit anything other than my str8 flush here.

[Acid_Knight 2]

no chance in just folding here possibly drawing to two and change outs? I can't really be comfortable if i hit anything other than my str8 flush here.

Folding is perfectly reasonable. The thing is though, he's kind of betting scared ($15 into a $10 pot) and we're both super deep. The implied odds are there, even to play just to hit my straight flush on the next card, to play with him if he has something like Ac and wont' be able to get away with it.I don't like folding a whole lot here. Raising is definitely the worst choice.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Not to be an ass or anything, but paid for what? We have an OESFD and a pair of 9s. One guy bet into 4 opponents. Our action doesn't close anything and there are 2 players behind us still to act. It's likely that even against the lone opponent betting, that neither our pair of 9s nor the flush draw is going to win the pot for us currently. I'd rather be making a straight on the turn than a flush with this hand. The bigger consideration is the fact that we are both so deep in chips. I would not want to start building this pot OOP with our hand.Our hand is very mediocre. Even if we make a flush (not the straight flush) we're only getting action if we're losing. Our implied odds suck and the reverse implied odds are huge.

So sue me. I'm in a "mood" today.

[Webslinger516 0]

Personally I'd just try to keep the pot small and see what develops. If we raise to $45, and BB or EP reraises, then what? We're boned. I think we'd only get reraised by a made hand in that spot, at least most of the time. The OP said that MP3 is super aggressive post-flop, so we could very well be ahead of him already and he's just semi-bluffing with the ace of clubs. If the 6c or the Jc comes off, we should be getting paid a lot if that's the situation. Overall: call the $15 bet and see what happens. If I get to see the turn: I would check-fold if it came a blank, would feel a little better if I spiked a 9, better if I hit a club, better if I made a straight, best if I made a straight flush. All in all, I wouldn't want to commit any more chips to this pot on the flop other than the $15.

[bdc30 0]

Meh. Are we gonna get paid off even if we hit a straight flush here?Nobody (should) be calling in to a 4-card straight flush board for a big bet unless they're blind or stupid. I can find a fold here, especially with others acting behind us. A raise is useless. I'd likely be tempted to just call and see what happened, especially with this deep of a stack.Call>Fold>Raise

[Roberts2003 0]

i would call flop for sure and see what happens. that would certainly slow him down on the turn, since your both so deep he checks behind a 10 almost always here. also, i would raise preflop to like 12, but i guess thats not the question.

[YBravo 0]

i would call flop for sure and see what happens. that would certainly slow him down on the turn, since your both so deep he checks behind a 10 almost always here. also, i would raise preflop to like 12, but i guess thats not the question.

Raising to 12 pre-flop would have gotten a call from everyone who limped. I would gain zero information, and I would be out of position with a marginal hand unless I hit a 9. This seems like a bad idea to me. As for the hand, I ended up folding, but afterwards I realized I should have called if only for that miracle straight flush vs. the nut flush scenario where I at least add a couple hundred to my stack if not double it. Plus, a check/call will probably slow down a lot of aggressive players on that board, and I probably won't have to put in too much more to get to showdown.

[Scott3705 0]

As for the hand, I ended up folding, but afterwards I realized I should have called if only for that miracle straight flush vs. the nut flush scenario where I at least add a couple hundred to my stack if not double it. Plus, a check/call will probably slow down a lot of aggressive players on that board, and I probably won't have to put in too much more to get to showdown.

I guess i'm just having a hard time coming up with whether we're leaking here looking to catch a miracle two outer on one pull and still be able to find the Ac here. I understand that if we KNEW he had the Ac then our implied odds are greater than 20:1 and we can call here. But if he doesn't have the Ac, he takes the pot down on the turn when we don't catch our draw 95% of the time and we got paid nothing when we do catch 5% of the time. So, on average, we need to make $300 when we hit. Assuming we stack him when he has the Ac, he needs to hold the Ac a little less than 50% of the time. Does he have the Ac that often here?

[Acid_Knight 2]

I guess i'm just having a hard time coming up with whether we're leaking here looking to catch a miracle two outer on one pull and still be able to find the Ac here. I understand that if we KNEW he had the Ac then our implied odds are greater than 20:1 and we can call here. But if he doesn't have the Ac, he takes the pot down on the turn when we don't catch our draw 95% of the time and we got paid nothing when we do catch 5% of the time. So, on average, we need to make $300 when we hit. Assuming we stack him when he has the Ac, he needs to hold the Ac a little less than 50% of the time. Does he have the Ac that often here?

Yeah, but this also makes many assumptions about his current hand strength and how he will interpret our actions and a number of other things. He might not have a strong hand and might be scared by what we have. By us just calling on that board we get to see how he acts on the next street after overbetting a scary flop like that and is called. I don't think it's a HUGE leak to call here, but it's probably a small one. If you are looking for other information from him when you make the call, then it probably becomes neutral EV in the long run.

[Scott3705 0]

Yeah, but this also makes many assumptions about his current hand strength and how he will interpret our actions and a number of other things. He might not have a strong hand and might be scared by what we have. By us just calling on that board we get to see how he acts on the next street after overbetting a scary flop like that and is called. I don't think it's a HUGE leak to call here, but it's probably a small one. If you are looking for other information from him when you make the call, then it probably becomes neutral EV in the long run.

I guess I'm not reading too much into that because I've seen 1/2 games where people will lead into a limped pot of 8 or so with 15-20 just because that's a "standard" flop bet. It's just weird. I agree it's not a huge leak. I just don't think it's necessary to call.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I just don't think it's necessary to call.

You're right it's not necessary. I think that calling or folding are the only options. Raising is totally unnecessary.