18 replies to this topic

[Eskimo]

I need some help on bluffing. Does anyone know any general rules for bluffing? More speciffically... when to do it and and how much we should bet?

[mutation321]

If your gonna bluff try to make sure there aren't many draws on the board. Also try to keep the size of the bet pretty similiarwhen u have a real hand or your bluffing.

[wrto4556]

I like what mutation said. I'de like to add that you should also look for tells. If you see something that means this guy is weak, and you are sure of it, make a stab at the pot. I'de also say that, if you are called, you should try to check it down, and if you are played back at, to muck right away. Don't let your ego get in the way when you are at the table. You don't have to bluff this guy out of the pot. And noones gonna laugh at you if your bluff doesn't succeed. Obviously it was worth a try if you were doing it, if it didn't work, oh well...there's always next time.

[JaysonWeber]

Eskimo, You should read a few books, they will teach you when the right time is too bluff, you have to think about, money in the pot compared to how much your betting, how many players, your position, your table image, and the draws.... A Poker book will go into great detail and help your full understanding of the game.

[Duff_Man]

I can only comment on bluffing online seeing as how that's all I play. I think if your gonna try bluffing it really helps to have a tight table image. If the other players see you as being loose then they're more likely to call you or even come over the top of you. If they come over the top of you then your in a pickle. Because if you fold to their re-raise then you really open yourself up. Granted that can be beneficial to you when you actually do have a hand later on. I almost always wait until I've won at least one hand where I made a substantial raise either pre-flop or after the turn. This way the table see's that your only playing premium hands and they'll be less apt to call a large bet. I also do a lot of folding early on and I believe this helps strengthen my tight image. I can't count the number of times Ive been able to steal a pot late in a SnG with a substantial raise. Also in SnG's when it gets down to close to the payout cutoff it's nice to try and get a read on the other players. It's usually pretty easy to spot the ones that are just trying to get ITM and those that are trying to move up in chips. I always go after the ones that are just trying to make it to the payout and I stear clear of the ones that are trying to move up. To me I'd rather make a move to try and finish 1st rather than play it safe and finish just in the money. In SnG's I usually finish 1st, 2nd, 4th, or 5th. Not a whole lot of thirds. The reward for 3rd usaully isn't enough at the limits I play $5-20.Just my thoughtsDuff

[JustinHEMI04]

wrto4556 said:

I like what mutation said. I'de like to add that you should also look for tells. If you see something that means this guy is weak, and you are sure of it, make a stab at the pot. I'de also say that, if you are called, you should try to check it down, and if you are played back at, to muck right away. Don't let your ego get in the way when you are at the table. You don't have to bluff this guy out of the pot. And noones gonna laugh at you if your bluff doesn't succeed. Obviously it was worth a try if you were doing it, if it didn't work, oh well...there's always next time.

I have to agree 100% and stress it even more, that the most important aspect is not letting your ego get in the way if the bluff fails. Sometimes you get called, you have to swallow your pride and lay it down. You lost, and you know you lost. Don't pay the guy off because your ego says too. See this all the time these days. A guy will get upset because someone calls his bluff, and he will continue it, only to lose all his money. Now when/how i bluff? I typically bluff when I am in mid to late position. I always raise on the button if there was no raise in front of me. I love drawing hands on the flop. Can always make money on those. I also like to bluff under the gun for the excitement, and seeing the looks on faces when the guy first to act comes out firing. Someone mentioned it, but bet as you normally bet. An abnormally large bet is a clear sign of a bluff. It might work once, maybe twice, but someone will catch on and it will cost you money. Basically what it comes down to is what works for you and what are you comfortable with. You can read all the books in the world, and overanalyze a million hands, and in the end you will have that many opinions on bluffing. I say just figure out what works best for you. One think I can say WON'T work is if a guy comes out firing and you try to come over the top with nothing. Don't do that. :)Justin

[wrto4556]

[quote name='" One think I can say WON'T work is if a guy comes out firing and you try to come over the top with nothing. Don't do that. :)Justin[/quote]Trial and error I assume...LOLGood point' date=' Justin.But duffman, why would you want a tight table image? This is sort of off-topic, but not really, I just don't mean to hi-jack the thread.Anyway, if anything you want a [i']loose[/i] table image. Show down a bluff, the first thing you do. Play too many hands early...then tighten way up. Now, I dont apply this to online play, because people do not sit down long enough to even notice your table image. But in live play, you want to get your good hands paid off, so you project a loose table image. That way they call with marginal hands (just in case your bluffing this time) when you hold the goods. Sure, you cant bluff as often, but bluffing is not all of poker. I would say that getting the most value for your hands is. By having the loose table image, you achieve this goal IMHO.

[smurdogg]

I was in a 200+20 live tourney today. The blinds were at 300-600 with 75 antes and I had AJ clubs utg and made it 1600, folded around to button who goes all in for 9400. Blinds fold, I call. He turns over A-10 hearts, I win. Oh and I was bluffing about this whole post, I was the one who went out with A-10, he was raising a lot and I thought I could get him off that hand.

[Duff_Man]

Quote

But duffman, why would you want a tight table image?

This is only for online play at a torunament table where the same people have been playing for a while. I do play at lot of hands early when the blinds aren't very high, but I get out of those hands when I don't hit the flop or don't feel I have the best hand. I think that by having a tight table image late in a game it will be easier for you to bluff at a pot due to the fact that the rest of the players (if their paying attention) will realize I'm only playing premium hands and will be less apt to call a huge bet that I put in. I think that by having a loose image early people are more likely to call down your bluff because you've been playing loose aggressive for a while and soner or later they're gonna have to make a stand. And that's when you can get into trouble. Just my opinion.ThanksDuff

[jayboogie]

Bluffing is an essential part of poker. You need to bluff in order to be a winning player. Why? Because everybody eventually gets deault the same cards, good and bad. If the best hand won everytime, we'd just be passing money back and forth and handing it all over the house. Spots to bluff? That's pretty simple, in the blinds when a rag flop comes. What I like to do is check-raise in this situation, more often than not, somebody with overcards will bet out and if you raise, you can pretty much get them to fold or call. Then if the turn doesn't look it helped them, you fire out again and usually will get a fold. The one mistake I think a lot of players make and myself included is that we'll bluff at a pot when we sense weakness. Often times I'm correct, but when your playing against bad players/calling stations, you'll get called down with middle pair, so it's worthless bluffing at a player unable to laydown middle and bottom pairs. You want to bluff good players who are capable of laying down hands. You'll get paid off later anyways when you do hit your top pair and get called down by middle pair. What you might want to do is try and bluff once or twice, just to make others know you do it. Then, you can switch gears and play a bit tighter, but come out aggressive again and end up getting paid off.

[qheuie]

i like this post. lots of good opinions.i agree with both Duff_man and wrto4556. i think in cash games (NL) i try to be more of a tight player, only reaching showdowns with premium hands. then when i raise pre-flop (i raise the same every time) people will eventually get the idea that i have cards. this comes in handy later when i just want to pick up the blinds and limper $$. if people are really paying attention you can do an uncharacteristic bet with a super premium hand so they think you are bluffing and get paid pretty good. like stated before, this only works when people pay attention, so it won't really work on a table with a high turnover rate.in tourneys i like to be more loose (not crazy loose) up front so people think i will play a wider variety of hands. later in the tourney i tighen up and people still think i am playing mediocre hands when actually i am using the better hands. the key to this is making sure that after you establish your looseness you change gears and tighen up or you will get burned. it is also neat to experiment with playing one tourney tight from the start and another loose then tight. just to see what works.q

[ForumMod]

I tend to think just the opposite of Qheuie, I know it goes against books really. The books will tell you to play Tight, wait for the cards, that sort of thing... But really I just don't find I win as much playing like that. I follow TJ Cloutier's advice for Early rounds of tournaments, straying away in the later rounds, or near the bubble, I will ussually open my game up. In cash games, I play position really, I am in post flop probobly 50% of the time, way more than any book recommends, but its because I know that I can win, betting correctly, hitting my cards, betting my draws... it all works, I lost money playing like this the first 2 times I did it, but only because I played Wrong post-flop. I analyzed my play and realized I CAN win doing this! I just have to make better decisions. Now don't do this All night, I mean tighten up a lot.. change gears.. but be willing to do this for an hour and then tighten up after winning a large pot after a showdown... after winning it with something like... 7-8 on a raise pre-flop... Its ridiculous how much better this works... but don't be a Loose player... this in my mind is NOT playing loose... its bluffing at the right time, picking up pots when you know THEY don't have a hand, regardless of what you have.Now don't go doing this in a game with novices who aren't very good... do this with rather good players and you will succeed... so... like I said its not the way the books tell you to play... but forget the books... honestly, I've read them and this works better!

[jayboogie]

if you play the way the books tell you, you'll usually have the same style as everyone else and be very easy to read. I constantly hear ppl complain about not getting the cards, but the truth is they do. They just don't get much when they do. Why? Because they're predictable. If they raise, they have a great hand. If they call, they don't. It's players like these that play weak, tight and think they're playing great that make me most of my profit. Usually you can walk right over these guys. You raise them and get them out, if you get called or raised, they usually have something and will call you down, so you can get out of the hand in the early betting rounds and not lose much. What you should do is perhaps read the books to learn the fundamentals of the game, which everybody applies. When it comes to a playing style and what you play, use your own. One style which works for one player doesn't work for another. That's just how poker is.

[pkarcher]

I recently read a Jesus Ferguson article where he discussed a common mistake people make in bluffing. People often bluff with second best type hands like mid pair or top pair with a low kicker. He says these types of hands are good for checking because they probably aren't the best hand but might be or might improve if you get a free card. The best hands to bluff are your absolute weakest hands because they have value only when bluffed as they will surely lose if checked or called to the river. So if you've been betting a flush or straight draw and miss it, it might be a nice spot to bluff (taking into account your read on the other players, table image, etc.)

[KKsuited]

Number #1 rule....make sure you're bluffing a player who will lay their hand down.You can't bluff a bad player who will call with a weak hand.That's the only rule I know of. Everything else is just knowing the situation and the players you're playing.

[jayboogie]

You can also bluff if you put your opponent on a drawing hand. LIkely if you see 2 of the same suit on the board and you just get called, they likely have a drawing hand. If it looks like they missed, fire out and bet with confidence, they will fold on the river with a missed draw.

[PrtyPSux]

Super System says to bluff when your drawing, to go all in...but I think thats over-used.. when I bluff I usually chek or smooth call till the end then I make my move if I think the other guy only has something like top pair. in limit holdem I like to check raise on the flop when I'm drawing this usually gives me a free ride to the river. Also try bluffing into scare cards like a third heart on the turn or an over card. just as long as you're sure they other guy isnt drawing. Finally try not to bluff too much, sometimes I get carried away and lose everything, I like to show one big bluff just so everyone knows Im capable at making a play like that, you'll be surprised how many times you get called when you have the nuts by making that same play.

[HoldemPokerPlyr]

I wrote a poker article on Thepokerforum.com on bluffing. It should help you out a bit.http://www.thepokerf...mpokerplyr2.htm-HoldemPokerPlyr

[JFarrell20]

Eskimo said:

I need some help on bluffing. Does anyone know any general rules for bluffing? More speciffically... when to do it and and how much we should bet?

A great way to bluff is this: Say its heads up, you call the BB. BB doubles it. You call with your J8 off.Flop comes A K 9. You check, figuring he hit either aces or kings due to the pre-flop raise. He bets 1/2 the pot. You call. Turn comes another 9 for a board of A K 9 9. He bets 1/2 the pot again. You re-raise 1.5 times his bet (This is to represent that you hit trip 9's. you can justify it b/c of your check/call on the flop.). Lets say he calls, thinking you are bluffing. River comes a 4 of no obvious help. If you check here, he'll probably check fearing your 999. So, I say come out betting big (an amount that looks like you WANT a call, but not too much that stinks of a bluff... this is the hard part. Gotta find the perfect amount. Or if you do check here, and he bets out again, you can re-raise like 5 or 6 times his raise and he may lay it down figuring you definitely have 999.)So, I'd say when the board pairs and you know your opponent hit a different pair (but dont think he hit a set), you can bluff a set.Another good time to bluff is like when its heads up and he raises pre-flop. You call with whatever... Flop comes Ah 7c 8c. You figure he could have made aces. he bets you call. (figuring if the turn comes a club or a 6 or 9 you can bluff him). Turn comes a blank. You check. he bets a small bet. you call praying for "help" on the river. River comes 9c! YES! lol. You push all in (or close to it). He folds scared of the flush or straight. (or even the Ace if he happened to have KK :-) )Hope this helps.