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aj....how would you play it

Started by brando, Apr 16 2005 06:40 PM

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#1 brando

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:40 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is MP3 with [Ac], [Jh]. 2 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.I raise in late position w/ AJ with 1 limper...got 2 cold calls, wtf am I up aggainst? Get's 3 bet by the BB....I"m very unhappy about this.Flop: (16 SB) [Ad], [As], [6d] (5 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.Looks like a great flop for me...of course the BB leads out, I have him on AK here, but I"m raising to see if he really has it....he decides to 3 bet it again and I go into check/call mode (right/wrong?) The CO and Button both call...I have no idea what they haveTurn: (14 BB) [2h] (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.River: (18 BB) [7c] (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO folds, Button calls.Final Pot: 21 BBComments?

#2 Vade

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:54 PM

The problem I see here, is that BB could easily have a big pair like JJ or KK and thinks that an Ace would smooth call the flopCap the flop and raise him on the turn, then maybe go into check/call mode...it's too early to put him on AK
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:54 PM

brando said:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is MP3 with [Ac], [Jh].    2 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.I raise in late position w/ AJ with 1 limper...got 2 cold calls, wtf am I up aggainst? Get's 3 bet by the BB....I"m very unhappy about this.I would have done the same. With no raises in front of you it's correct to raise here as you probably have the best A. Getting 3-bet sucks and all the callers is confusing as hell.Flop: (16 SB) [Ad], [As], [6d] (5 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.Looks like a great flop for me...of course the BB leads out, I have him on AK  here, but I"m raising to see if he really has it....he decides to 3 bet it again and I go into check/call mode (right/wrong?) The CO and Button both call...I have no idea what they haveEither they're chasing a pocket pair hoping to hit the full house or they're on the flush draw. I still like how you played it so far. Good restraint to not cap as three hands have you trounced AQ, AK and 66 which are reasonable (except for 66 3-betting)Turn: (14 BB) [2h] (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.Standard. The pots too big to fold but you're not good often enough to raise, in fact you have odds to call even if you knew the BB had AK or AQ and you have to hit a J to win.River: (18 BB) [7c] (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO folds, Button calls.Standard call with the pot this large. You don't have to be right often for this call to be correct. It's hard to tell if you're good, I'm honestly not sure.Final Pot: 21 BBComments?
I think you played it fine. It may just have been one of those hands where you play correctly and there's a better hand that beats you. It was good how you slowed down after getting so much action. Nicely played.

#4 RonBurgundy

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:55 PM

looks good, ajo is questionable for a pre flop raise but id probly play it the same

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:59 PM

Vade said:

The problem I see here, is that BB could easily have a big pair like JJ or KK and thinks that an Ace would smooth call the flopCap the flop and raise him on the turn, then maybe go into check/call mode...it's too early to put him on AK
I agree that the BB could have a big pair. Unless the BB is a maniac, I don't see him 3-betting that flop and then continuing to bet the turn and river. If he IS on a big pair, you DON'T want to scare him away if he's going to keep betting into you, and if he has a better A you want to see the showdown as cheaply as possible. In both of these cases it's better to call down to maximize the amount you get out of the pair and minimize the amount you lose to the better A.Zara

#6 Vade

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:00 PM

But if he does have that big pair, I don't want him hitting it on the river without paying as much as possible, there's no reason to lose control of this hand
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.

#7 brando

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:03 PM

Good points Zara and VadeZara you put into words what I was thinking.

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:19 PM

Vade said:

But if he does have that big pair, I don't want him hitting it on the river without paying as much as possible, there's no reason to lose control of this hand
I agree you don't want to let the big pair hit the set. However, with no reads on the opponent I'm going to assume they're playing at least somewhat reasonably until proven otherwise. I don't see a reasonable player three betting the flop and leading on the turn unless they have the A and the 3-bet preflop indicates a big A (probably bigger than yours.)In this case, I think you are against a bigger A at least twice as often as a maniac with a big pair so calling down is appropriate. Bad beats happen, but indiscriminately raising so they pay as much as possible is only going to cost YOU money in this situation in the long term. If the BB hits the 2-outer or shows down a big pocket pair, buddy list him and note he overplays big pairs.I don't think NOW is the time to pick your fight. Let him prove if he's horrible or not and use that knowledge later. When you don't have a read on people sometimes you'll get very surprised by what they have. Who knows, maybe he has KQs and doing this with a flush draw. This small possibility doesn't make it appropriate to raise him just in case. Note how he plays it this time and use that knowledge later to pick a better spot for a battle.ZaraP.S. You already lost control of this hand, by calling the three-bet preflop, the BB has initiative as the last raiser. Trying to regain it when I believe you will usually have the worst hand is only going to cost you more money. In general, you want to have control. You can't and shouldn't have it always though. There are times to be passive and I believe this is one of them.

#9 KDawgCometh

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:32 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is MP3 with [Ac], [Jh]. 2 folds, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.I raise in late position w/ AJ with 1 limper...got 2 cold calls, wtf am I up aggainst? Get's 3 bet by the BB....I"m very unhappy about this.Flop: (16 SB) [Ad], [As], [6d] (5 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.Looks like a great flop for me...of course the BB leads out, I have him on AK here, but I"m raising to see if he really has it....he decides to 3 bet it again and I go into check/call mode (right/wrong?) The CO and Button both call...I have no idea what they haveI like smooth calling here. If no diamond falls on the turn your equity goes through the roofTurn: (14 BB) [2h] (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.this is where you need to pop it. You having trip aces makes it less likely that he has AK, which would be the only 3betting hand that he could have given this flopRiver: (18 BB) [7c] (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, CO folds, Button calls.since no diamond fell you can safely raise this riverFinal Pot: 21 BBComments?I think you ran and hid way too fast, calling the 3bet PF is just mandatory, but since you raised him on the flop, you really need to cap it. You always need to play your trips superfast. With no Jack, queen or king falling I can safely say that you are ahead and you need to get maximum value out of this hand here on the river. Don't be scared, for the amount of times that he'll have AK he will have QQ,JJ, or KK way more. ITs massive plus EV to be betting this hard on the big streets
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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:41 PM

KDawg, what reasonable preflop 3-betting hand has two diamonds and one of them is not the A? I just can't put the BB on the flush draw here with reasonable play. The CO or button maybe but not the BB.Zara

#11 Vade

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:43 PM

KQ of diamonds is a reasonable hand to three bet in some cases, and a lot of goofballs out there might do the same with KJ of diamonds
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#12 wrto4556

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:46 PM

Vade said:

KQ of diamonds is a reasonable hand to three bet in some cases, and a lot of goofballs out there might do the same with KJ of diamonds
I doubt it.Id cap the frop and bump the turn. Call down against further resistance.
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#13 KDawgCometh

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:50 PM

Zarathustra said:

KDawg, what reasonable preflop 3-betting hand has two diamonds and one of them is not the A? I just can't put the BB on the flush draw here with reasonable play. The CO or button maybe but not the BB.Zara
I'm not worried about the BB having diamonds, its the other guys that I'm factoring in this. You don't want to be focusing on just the BB. with no diamond falling on the turn your equity skyrockets and I'd go nuts on the turn
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#14 KDawgCometh

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:51 PM

Vade said:

KQ of diamonds is a reasonable hand to three bet in some cases, and a lot of goofballs out there might do the same with KJ of diamonds
maybe in a 10/20 ot 15/30 game, but definetly not 1/2
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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:54 PM

Vade said:

KQ of diamonds is a reasonable hand to three bet in some cases, and a lot of goofballs out there might do the same with KJ of diamonds
Unless the poster himself has been pegged as a maniac how is KQs a reasonable 3-betting hand? You're out of position, facing preflop aggression and THREE calls. If it was heads up between you and the raiser maybe, but with this many people how can this be a good idea?Once again, I'm not saying it isn't possible for the BB to have one of these hands, I just don't find it likely and far more likely you are in trouble.Zara

#16 Vade

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 07:57 PM

Er...again I meant to say that your opponents might be three-betting those hands, not trying to say you should do thatAgain, I'm watching tv and posting, so I'm not making my points right x.x
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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:04 PM

KDawgCometh said:

Zarathustra said:

KDawg, what reasonable preflop 3-betting hand has two diamonds and one of them is not the A? I just can't put the BB on the flush draw here with reasonable play. The CO or button maybe but not the BB.Zara
I'm not worried about the BB having diamonds, its the other guys that I'm factoring in this. You don't want to be focusing on just the BB. with no diamond falling on the turn your equity skyrockets and I'd go nuts on the turn
How is charging the flush draws more good if you're behind in the hand anyway? If you're behind, you're drawing to 3 outs and there's no way. Based on the BB action, I just don't see how you're ahead often enough to make it worth it.Zara

#18 KDawgCometh

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:17 PM

Honestly, you are ahead soo many times here its comical. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy had KK or QQ, not evbery player makes good decisions. With no reads I'm am assumng that we are way out in front
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#19 brando

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:44 PM

*drumroll*BB had KK and I definately missed some bets.Seems from all the responses I should have been more aggressive, I tend to agree with Zara's thinking, but that's prolly cause that's the way I played it.Lesson learned though, thanks for everyone's input

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:55 PM

KDawgCometh said:

Honestly, you are ahead soo many times here its comical. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy had KK or QQ, not evbery player makes good decisions. With no reads I'm am assumng that we are way out in front
So am I just giving the low limit players too much credit in general? I'm still confused how with reasonable play you can be ahead enough to warrant raising.Zara
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