Strat Tourney: Again, A9 Shorthanded & Shortstack Pushes

[SlackerInc 0]

It was JAS II (goheels here) who did the pushing, and he was very surprised I called, though stupidkid was not. This tourney paid three, so no bubble issues per se, though a few hands earlier it had looked like at least second place money was nearly assured as JAS had dropped to only 685 in chips.Edited: The converter's not working right no matter how many times I try it. I'll leave just the part that came through reasonably, and splice in the rest from the raw HH:Seat 1: stupidkid888 (7660 in chips) Seat 2: JAS II (1520 in chips) Seat 7: SlackerInc1 (4320 in chips)Blinds 75/150.Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, A. (This one is, fortunately, simple enough not to really need the converter the rest of the way.)JAS II (the button) shoved. I called. There was a difference of opinion as to whether it was smart of me to call or not. Anyone disagree with my call? BTW, he had recently doubled up against SK who had the same hand (A9), I believe; that time JAS had 88.

[simo_8ball 1]

Even with stack sizes that hand is still pretty illegible.Put it through the converter again.

[tskillz187 0]

Easy call.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I probably fold. The range I put him on has you like a 45-54 dog so mathematically it's probably pretty close but I hate the dynamic of you doubling up the shorty and moving in to third place. Gross spot though

[simo_8ball 1]

Very read dependent. If he's shoving a wide range you call, and if he's shoving a fairly selective range you fold.I probably fold though. You aren't going to have a large edge whatever range, but you could be way behind it.

[jjgoldy5 0]

Very read dependent. If he's shoving a wide range you call, and if he's shoving a fairly selective range you fold.I probably fold though. You aren't going to have a large edge whatever range, but you could be way behind it.

If blinds are 200/400 its an easy call because he's more desperate - this is a tough one though since shover still has some room to manuever.With that said, meet my friend bawb (barely ahead / way behind)... and as Grinder said, if you double him up, it's going to be a grind to pull into 2nd (especially since the chipleader can lean on the two short stacks not wanting to bust in 3rd)

[GrinderMJ 0]

Def. agree with Simo and Goldy analysis

[SlackerInc 0]

I guess a big difference between this and the other A9 hand is that in this one, I hadn't already put a raise into the pot and so did not have the same odds. I felt his range was pretty wide, though; and as it turned out I was ahead: I called and he flipped over K8 suited (diamonds--but I had the A of diamonds). Still, the rest of the cautious analysis can't be dismissed given that after he caught his K and I did not get my A, I did have trouble regaining second place (in fact, I did not--and went out third). But boy, it's also hard for me to stomach just laying down and giving up my blinds with hands like that one three-way. And if I do win the pot, I'm in a lot better shape to contend for first place than if I lay low and hope for the big stack to take him out (which seems to be what you guys are suggesting). I can see more merit in the "fold" argument now though than at the time. Interesting that of those at the table, both I and stupidkid thought it was an automatic call (as does tskillz, it should be noted) while JAS/goheels thought it was kind of a loose call (in the chat he said "wow on that call" which I always find a little funny coming from someone who had the worse hand--I mean, I understand where they are coming from in terms of FIV but still).

[tskillz187 0]

I agree with you, but keep in mind I'm not at all a SnG player and I don't take into account too much how it woul affect you if you were now bunched at the bottom with one dominating chip leader. I mean, that has to be pretty important, but I just look at the push and assume you are ahead of his pushing range by a decent amount. I'm a pretty loose caller because people have gotten way looser with their pushing ranges because of HoH.

[goheels 0]

I thought at the time it was a fold and I still think it is. You nearly insta-called me too, maybe that also surprised me as I don't think you gave much thought to anything other then I have A9 3-handed.I agree with a lot of what Grinder, Simo, and Goldy have said here. If you call and lose you go from a comforatable 2nd to 3rd, but if you call and win you're still in 2nd by more then 2000 chips. I also think the SAWB thing really applies here. Either I have a hand like I had (which is at the WAY bottom of my range, I almost just folded and probably should have) and you're slightly ahead or you're crushed.If the blinds were even 100-200 I could more justify a call, but here, given the stack sizes I think this is a fold. (on both of our parts actually)

[tskillz187 0]

I thought at the time it was a fold and I still think it is. You nearly insta-called me too, maybe that also surprised me as I don't think you gave much thought to anything other then I have A9 3-handed.I agree with a lot of what Grinder, Simo, and Goldy have said here. If you call and lose you go from a comforatable 2nd to 3rd, but if you call and win you're still in 2nd by more then 2000 chips. I also think the SAWB thing really applies here. Either I have a hand like I had (which is at the WAY bottom of my range, I almost just folded and probably should have) and you're slightly ahead or you're crushed.If the blinds were even 100-200 I could more justify a call, but here, given the stack sizes I think this is a fold. (on both of our parts actually)

I think if you're shoving K8 here even if it is bottom of your range, you are shoving like 35% of the deck. I have to call with a9 there IMO. Your range is (likely) 22-AA, A6+, A2ss+, K9+ K7ss+, then I'd assume suited connectors and gappers from 67ss+, 10J+, JQ, Q9/Q10. I just can't fold when I think I'm a good amount ahead of your range there.

[silkyjonson 1]

Depends on the frequency that he has been shoving. Has he been active or not? If he appears to be playing patient and waiting for a solid hand I think a fold is the right choice given his range as A9 is not a big favourite over many hands and easily dominated. You definetely dont want to double up the shorty at this point with him still having 10xbb its a close decision that as stated by others is completely read dependent. If you think you have an edge vs. the 2 players it should be an easy fold as you are rarely gaining a ton of equity in this spot.