Not Standard

[cwik 0]

villain is 52%/13%/4.00/29, so not a lot to go on.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $1/$26 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $200UTG+1: $132CO: $219.70Hero: $227.70SB: $205.70BB: $225.80Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with K K UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $9, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.Flop: J 7 2 ($29, 3 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $22, SB calls, UTG+1 folds.Turn: 3 ($73, 2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.River: 7 ($73, 2 players)SB is all-in $174.7, Hero ???

[mtdesmoines 2]

Hero ???

More often than not, this is a fold. Reads?

[Zach6668 513]

Would anyone prefer a ~$40 turn bet, and a check behind on the river?

[Footballguru 0]

i call the river, but im a donk :/

[NocturnalRob 0]

I agree. Checking the turn gives you no idea of where you are. Little more than half the pot on the turn--$45 or so, and then gauge from there. He's been check calling the whole way and then suddenly pushes on the river? Personally, I don't buy it--SB reads your turn check as weakness and pushes. Without any input from a turn bet, I call this river push most of the time. Then again, I tend to overvalue my overpairs anyway.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I agree. Checking the turn gives you no idea of where you are. Little more than half the pot on the turn--$45 or so, and then gauge from there. He's been check calling the whole way and then suddenly pushes on the river? Personally, I don't buy it--SB reads your turn check as weakness and pushes. Without any input from a turn bet, I call this river push most of the time. Then again, I tend to overvalue my overpairs anyway.

Yeah, I bet the turn, too. I just ended up thinking about the decision at the river.

[Snamuh 0]

I agree. Checking the turn gives you no idea of where you are. Little more than half the pot on the turn--$45 or so, and then gauge from there. He's been check calling the whole way and then suddenly pushes on the river? Personally, I don't buy it--SB reads your turn check as weakness and pushes. Without any input from a turn bet, I call this river push most of the time. Then again, I tend to overvalue my overpairs anyway.

I agree. Really need to bet over half pot on turn.

[cwik 0]

humm, I don't mind the turn play at all. Basically, I could bet to protect, but the draw I was worried about all ready hit. I could bet for value, but what hands call $40 here?? I think keeping the pot smaller here is better.

[Zach6668 513]

I think keeping the pot smaller here is better.

And you did a great job too.

[Snamuh 0]

And you did a great job too.

Burn!

[CobaltBlue 662]

Meh. I don't hate the turn check...since we're sitting on the Kd...particularly since it allows us to pick off a river bluff on the river from a seemingly aggressive opponent. Against normal to good players, this is a fold. However, his limited stats so far indicate possibilities of an aggrodonk...so if I've since him retardo a previous hand, I'm making the call.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Meh. I don't hate the turn check...since we're sitting on the Kd...particularly since it allows us to pick off a river bluff on the river from a seemingly aggressive opponent. Against normal to good players, this is a fold. However, his limited stats so far indicate possibilities of an aggrodonk...so if I've since him retardo a previous hand, I'm making the call.

We don't have the Kd.I understand the premise of keeping the pot small, but we also give up any kind of control of the hand that we had. I think you gotta fold this river because the only thing we can beat is Jx or a gutshot that missed.

[No_Neck 0]

We don't have the Kd.I understand the premise of keeping the pot small, but we also give up any kind of control of the hand that we had. I think you gotta fold this river because the only thing we can beat is Jx or a gutshot that missed.

I think this screams I had a set and I was going for the check raise on the turn, but now the board paired and I am hoping you will pay me off with a flush.The flush got there and 7x beats you, I think this is a fold.

[docnuclear 0]

without a read it is pretty expensive so I fold, too many hands beat us

[cwik 0]

This is a fold for me, infact thats exactly what I did. however instead of insta mucking it, his strange over bet/new found aggression did have me thinking about it longer than I normally would. he then showed this hand. 9 8 , which made this hand semi interesting. I really didn't know anything about this guy though to make any read oriented play.

[No_Neck 0]

This is a fold for me, infact thats exactly what I did. however instead of insta mucking it, his strange over bet/new found aggression did have me thinking about it longer than I normally would. he then showed this hand. 9 8 , which made this hand semi interesting. I really didn't know anything about this guy though to make any read oriented play.

Notes: Villian loves to make suicidal bluffs.... did he keep playing crazy or did he slow down?

[cwik 0]

Notes: Villian loves to make suicidal bluffs.... did he keep playing crazy or did he slow down?

did note, but the hand was near the end of my session, hockey game came on.

[CobaltBlue 662]

We don't have the Kd.

Oops. Misread the OP. Yeah...I think we gotta bet the turn now.

[cwik 0]

Oops. Misread the OP. Yeah...I think we gotta bet the turn now.

interesting, I think I am more likely to bet the turn if I have the k

[Zach6668 513]

I can't figure out why you're against betting the turn.

[cwik 0]

I can't figure out why you're against betting the turn.

mostly because I was scared of the diamond draw, and the diamond draw hit.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

mostly because I was scared of the diamond draw, and the diamond draw hit.

Check/call is NOT always indicative of a draw.The third diamond hitting, while worrisome, is no reason to completely back out of this pot. I could see playing JTs like this up to the crazy river play. Maybe even an A7 or some such. Bet the turn.

[Zach6668 513]

The pot is $73. If we toss in a $40-$45 bet, villain would need some stones to bluff raise you. It's obv a pretty easy fold to a raise here, could be a set, could be a flush, but we're beat and drawing slim to dead. If he calls us, we can check down any river we like, and we get to showdown super cheap.By checking, we're inviting a large bluff bet, sometimes value bet on the river. I like checking and picking off a river bluff in certain spots, but it really helps to have a clue of where we are, here, we really don't.

[Acid_Knight 2]

The thing is, I'd be more inclined to call this bet than I would be inclined to call one when he led out on the turn.If he has a flush, the river is not a good card for him. You can easily have a set here the way things have played out and if so, you just made your boat on the river. It's unlikely that he flopped a set becuase he'd have check-raised the flop or bet the turn when the 2nd diamond came out.Now he's pushing the river when it's more likely that he's beat? It doesnt' make sense.With your hand, no solid reads and no diamond, the safe, default and probably correct move is to fold this every time.However, if I held AA with the A then I would probably be calling becuase his bet just seems to bluffish since he can't have the nut flush and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a boat. Still, if you held the A then you'd probably have fired a bullet on the turn.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Another thing. I would often bet this turn when he checks to me. Many players are willing to take one off on the flop, but once you continue your aggression even after the diamond falls, they are likely to give up. Also, it's not common for them to bluff check-raise you on the turn after the flush card gets there, so if you bet and you are raised, you can be confident that you are beaten.