fcp members race to 5k

[JaysonWeber 0]

Allright, I've got the go ahead from Daniel so here it is.As many people have allready started I'd like feedback as to what they started with.These rules will change:Starting Funds - ? I'm up for anything from 500 to 1kWe could do the 50 - 5k, but honestly thats kind of a waste of time, as we wouldn't be able to 3-4 table anything to begin on the site many of us will be doing this on. People can start with $50 I dont mean this as an insult that I won't be starting with $50, its just that in a month poker is going to be paying my rent and I dont wanna drop lower than .5/1 for that reason.Keeping the Records and updating on the forum - Allright this isn't a who can get it done fastest thing, many of us can put in way more hands in a week than others so that isn't fair. We'll use the trust system, and we'll analyze bb/100 after reaching 5k.This is no competition, I see this as a great opportunity to analyze our selves and have everyone on the forum analyze us as well.When to move up in limits - I think it'd be better if we followed the 300bb rule, So... For 1/2 we'd need 600 to start, even though "technically" if we were to start with 1k and 3 table it'd be "within the bankroll rule" to do .5/1 until we hit 1800, but theres something to be said about variance and 3 tabling so thats up for discussion.Updating it for the website - There will be a sticky in the strategy forum for this race, I think the few of us that have "poker blogs" (our links would be in our signature, as mine is) will probobly be able to keep more in-depth reports on that while on the Sticky Item in Strategy we'll have our results for the last "X" number of hands, our bb/100 (for those of us w/ Ptracker we can put all the relavent stats) and so on. Again lets get some feedback before we've decided anything.I think this would be a good example of how a good "update" post would be on it.ExampleJaysonWeber - Update Day 23Well I was able to crunch about 1100 hands today, I hit 1800 last week so I Did this at the 1/2 tables.These are my PTracker Stats for this session.VP%IP - 17.89%PFR% - 8.5%W$SD - 54%AF - 2.8%BB/100 - 2 BB/100As you can see it was a pretty good session, didn't get the variance bug or run bad. (a little paragraph on how the session went overall).Here's a few hands I had come up and how I played them.Here we'd have a limit maybe 1 hand per... 200 allowed in each post or something? Again this is all up for debate.I want us to have this put together nicely before we have it set up and running.Throw the advice in here and we'll keep on it.

[JaysonWeber 0]

I was lurking around 2+2 and found an old post that I'd forgotten about, I think this might work well if we could all implement it within our posts.Its regarding player notes, within the posts it could be helpful if we didnt something out of the ordinary on a specific hand we could have a sidenote that we plug in mid-hand about our thinking.Midway through a hand...My notes on MP2 where the following..."Player made a flop bet into the preflop raiser in a multiway pot with bottom pair" Instead... that same post would be "F b 2 pf-r mw w/bp" Few more examples are the following"Calls down with any part of the board" becomes "cd w/apob" "checkraised flopped trips on turn" becomes "cr F trp T" with the possible addendum "w/o pf-r"."b 2 LPpf-r w/bp on prdF" - "Bet into late position preflop raiser with bottom pair on a paired flop" (note, bp meaning not trips) "no b F OESD mw" - "Did not bet a flopped openended straight draw multiway."blf cr scr T flsh w/nil HU pf-r" - "bluff check-raised a scary turn flush card with nothing heads up vs. the pre-flop raiser (and probable aggressor in hand)" Look at it twice it makes sense, and if we all got the lingo down it'd make the analyzing of the hands a little nicer, as they're are going to be a lot of hands analyzed for this.Just another suggestion, give me your thoughts.

[Guest]

If you have a proper bankroll for say 2/4 (ie 1200), it doesn't matter how many tables you play (within reason), you're properly bankrolled. Forcing a 300BB/table is rediculous. If you're a winning player, you don't need 3 or 4 times the bankroll to play 3 or 4 tables then if you only play 1 table. As I understand it, the 300BB rule is for being able to avoid nasty swings of luck. Mathematically, there is no difference between playing 50 hands/hr (1 table) or 200 hands/hr (4 tables). The 300BB rule is still the "best" amount to have to avoid ruin. Like yourself, I am also playing to make money to pay bills. I don't have $3600 to set aside to 3-table 2/4 like I do now with your restrictions. Furthermore, I'm not going to drop down to .5/1 as I would be losing too much potential profit and it's just not worth it to participate.Zara

[Guest]

As for the notes, I don't like them. I'd rather have the posts longer so I can just read what they're saying without having to try and decipher things like "F b 2 pf-r mw w/bp". It's shorter but it takes far longer to read and outside people won't have any clue and just ignore it. With that said, it is a good system for notes you take in game. It can be hard sometimes to say what you want to as you're playing multiple tables.ZaraP.S. I do think this is a great idea and will at least participate with feedback on hands even if I don't play in the race as well.

[elkang 0]

I like the notes and haven't come up with a good short hand yet. I would like to see standard notes that everyone can easily and efficiently use. For now we take things like "overplays TPTK" and get to "F b 2 pf-r mw w/bp" (flop bet into the preflop raiser in a multiway pot with bottom pair). After seeing it 50 times, and writing it yourself in your own notes 50 times I think it'll stick.Oh also, I will be doing this also - I can only see how this will help my game - and I just have to add a little more record keeping and review - which is something worth doing anyway.Bankroll wise - we're all allowed a little leeway - whether it is invested in different sites or paying your rent - I trust that people will post honestly and use good judgement. I one table 3/6 now, but predominantly multitable .50/$1 (4) and $1/2 (2) depending on the site, and my online bankroll is at $1800 now. Perhaps we will learn from others mistakes and unlucky variance.

[JaysonWeber 0]

okay... just to clear a few things up Zara, I'm not sure if you read through it too quickly or what but that was a pretty negative post, and I believe I answered, directly or indirectly every complaint you had...I can start this out with one of my first lines..

These rules will change

Not maybe... Will. I did not throw this out to be followed verbatim this is a conversation starter until we find a few ideas everyone can agree on.

If you have a proper bankroll for say 2/4 (ie 1200), it doesn't matter how many tables you play (within reason), you're properly bankrolled. Forcing a 300BB/table is rediculous.

I think it'd be better if we followed the 300bb rule

Although, At the bottom that paragraph I also say

but theres something to be said about variance and 3 tabling so thats up for discussion.

This is not a Rule by any means, in the past, and for quite a few other "experiments" like this on this website and others, players have stuck to the 300 bb/100 rule, just for the simple fact that many people who are newer to poker than someone like yourself playing 2/4 (and from the sounds of it doing well) understand the importance of b/r management.

As I understand it, the 300BB rule is for being able to avoid nasty swings of luck. Mathematically, there is no difference between playing 50 hands/hr (1 table)  or 200 hands/hr (4 tables).

Your 100% right... But 4 tabling within 1 hour with $100 at each table is different than playing 1 table for that same hour. I said that the variance is lower in these cases but it still exists! Its just a guideline, and I certainly dont think it'd be a problem at all if while 3-4 tabling for this experiment people didn't follow the 300x ideaology. this is simply the beginnings, the rules are not set in stone by any means. Even when they are, due to many people who are already well on there way through this, the rules will not have been meet by everyone. This is as much for the people doing it as it is for everyone reading, its a great opportunity to gain information by compiling everyones information toegether to get a braoder idea as to "how much harder" a game is from say .5/1 to 3/6. That is one of the many reasons for doing this in my opinion.

. I don't have $3600 to set aside to 3-table 2/4 like I do now with your restrictions. Furthermore, I'm not going to drop down to .5/1 as I would be losing too much potential profit and it's just not worth it to participate.

Well... I think I did cover this as well.

People can start with $50 I dont mean this as an insult that I won't be starting with $50, its just that in a month poker is going to be paying my rent and I dont wanna drop lower than .5/1 for that reason.

So if that wasn't clear, I'll re-itterate. The reason many of the people who already began playing didn't start at $50 is for this exact reason! The $3600 starting b/r claim I think I already talked about, perhaps you want to do one where you start with a bit more money and try to make the same percentage profit? Many will be starting with 1k or a little over 1k, Hopefully some will start with lower amounts too.This isn't a strict set of rules at all, These are just beginning guidelines so people have a "general" idea as to where this is going.I hope I've answered all the questions, Atleast we got some good discussion rolling here.

[DKE_XP120 0]

y l c l p bYou're Linking to Chris LaMells Poker Blog (in your sig.)Shouldnt you link to yours? Or arent you cool enough to have one?

[JaysonWeber 0]

y l c l p bYou're Linking to Chris LaMells Poker Blog (in your sig.)Shouldnt you link to yours? Or arent you cool enough to have one?

lol thank you! I think that got messed up last night when I was linking his blog to mine, now I'm working on my real website... Props to chris this stuff ain't easy!Thanks for the headsup man, lay a comment on me if you'd like

[DKE_XP120 0]

lay a comment on me if you'd like I dont know what that means, but it sounds sexual, and i'm NOT interested Mr. Weber!

[JaysonWeber 0]

haha allright, its time for people who are doing this or planning to soon to gear up and post in here!

[crumpentunt 0]

I would like to take part in this, not really a race, but just to get in a group of knowledgable people to get feedback on my hands. I have a $700 bankroll, pokertracker and GT+. I have just moved up to 1/2 and am currently easing in to 4 tabling.I like everything you have posted, I think posting 5 marginal hands with tough decisions (or i guess any hand you would like commented on) is a good quota. That way the posts don't become too overbearing. I really enjoy reading the posts which are going on right now, so I really like this idea.I won't be able to start participating fully, until about 2 weeks, when finals are over. I'll be reading/commenting until then, but not posting any hands.

[JaysonWeber 0]

I would like to take part in this, not really a race, but just to get in a group of knowledgable people to get feedback on my hands.  I have a $700 bankroll, pokertracker and GT+.  I have just moved up to 1/2 and am currently easing in to 4 tabling.I like everything you have posted, I think posting 5 marginal hands with tough decisions (or i guess any hand you would like commented on) is a good quota.  That way the posts don't become too overbearing.  I really enjoy reading the posts which are going on right now, so I really like this idea.I won't be able to start participating fully, until about 2 weeks, when finals are over.  I'll be reading/commenting until then, but not posting any hands.

Yeah it's not a race, that just seems to be the term.The way I see it we can't lose with this. For one it will make us WANT to play better competition among peers does that to oneself.Secondly, Im thinking we can keep these as seperate databases in PokerTracker. I'd be willing to compile them all based on limits so that we have a LARGE database about the average play, the database could also be e-mailed to people who are starting at... .5/1 they'd have ALL of our hands with each limit. Third... The B/R Managment is something that I will focus on, I know many players don't want too, but I'm doing this as an experiment and I want to be able to draw a conclusion at the end about the difference in play from .5/1 to 3-6 at the most drastic level and everything inbetween. See where the "Jumps" are.

[Guest]

okay... just to clear a few things up Zara, I'm not sure if you read through it too quickly or what but that was a pretty negative post, and I believe I answered, directly or indirectly every complaint you had...

Apparently I shouldn't post when I first get up in the morning. I re-read the posts and you're right, you answered most of it and I was WAY too negative. My apologies. I think I'll have to enforce a no posting before noon rule now Zara

[JaysonWeber 0]

okay... just to clear a few things up Zara, I'm not sure if you read through it too quickly or what but that was a pretty negative post, and I believe I answered, directly or indirectly every complaint you had...

Apparently I shouldn't post when I first get up in the morning. I re-read the posts and you're right, you answered most of it and I was WAY too negative. My apologies. I think I'll have to enforce a no posting before noon rule now Zara

lol no problem man, thanks for replying

[Petoria 0]

Did we ever settle the dispute about whether you need a bigger BR to multi-table? If we didn't, I dont think it makes a difference whether you play a bunch of hands at the same time or spaced out over a longer period of time. You're going to have to explain it to me.

[wrto4556 0]

It is too a race!I think Kdawg is in the lead, though. Focker.

[Shocktastik 0]

I think this sounds way fun guys, I also can't start until finals are done. I haven't played any real money games online but I've scrounged up $300 (including deposit bonus) to deposit at Party Poker and play at the .5/1 limit games. GL everyone and I certainly look forward to learning as much as I can from your play and from your criticism and maybe even some praise of some of my plays :)GL!!Shock

[KDawgCometh 2]

It is too a race!I think Kdawg is in the lead, though. Focker.

damn skippy. Got up to 2700 last night too. I'm up 700 since we started

[JaysonWeber 0]

It is too a race!I think Kdawg is in the lead, though. Focker.

damn skippy. Got up to 2700 last night too. I'm up 700 since we started

KDawg, Just depositing another 700 doesn't count... Sorry man.

[KDawgCometh 2]

It is too a race!I think Kdawg is in the lead, though. Focker.

damn skippy. Got up to 2700 last night too. I'm up 700 since we started

KDawg, Just depositing another 700 doesn't count... Sorry man.

:shock:

[ddoggphx 0]

I think the idea above of a percentage increase of BR versus a set dollar figure opens it up to many different limits.Right now, my bankroll is very low as I've basically been taking only free money from sites (no deposits) and rolling it up at the microlimits. I'm around $130 right now playing .05/.10, soon to be .10/.25. However, I think the knowledge and skill that can be earned from these types of events is fantastic. I'd like to be a part of it, but at a low BR the $ isn't attractive to me. I do like the percentage increase idea, because I think it handicaps people across the limits, and also you'll see a broader type of play as the differences in each limit affect people's holdings.My 2 cents.

[JaysonWeber 0]

I think the idea above of a percentage increase of BR versus a set dollar figure opens it up to many different limits.Right now, my bankroll is very low as I've basically been taking only free money from sites (no deposits) and rolling it up at the microlimits. I'm around $130 right now playing .05/.10, soon to be .10/.25. However, I think the knowledge and skill that can be earned from these types of events is fantastic. I'd like to be a part of it, but at a low BR the $ isn't attractive to me. I do like the percentage increase idea, because I think it handicaps people across the limits, and also you'll see a broader type of play as the differences in each limit effect people's holdings.My 2 cents.

Perfect, You shoudl get involved then do you have PokerTracker or something so you could give us input? You could to the original version of this $50 - 5k or... 100 to 5k. Very good idea man.

[ddoggphx 0]

I think the idea above of a percentage increase of BR versus a set dollar figure opens it up to many different limits.Right now, my bankroll is very low as I've basically been taking only free money from sites (no deposits) and rolling it up at the microlimits. I'm around $130 right now playing .05/.10, soon to be .10/.25. However, I think the knowledge and skill that can be earned from these types of events is fantastic. I'd like to be a part of it, but at a low BR the $ isn't attractive to me. I do like the percentage increase idea, because I think it handicaps people across the limits, and also you'll see a broader type of play as the differences in each limit effect people's holdings.My 2 cents.

Perfect, You shoudl get involved then do you have PokerTracker or something so you could give us input? You could to the original version of this $50 - 5k or... 100 to 5k. Very good idea man.

Yep, I've got PT.

[JaysonWeber 0]

Get in on it do you have any tracking software so you could keep all your stats etc? The original idea with this is a 100 or so to 1k so by all means..

[ddoggphx 0]

I'm totally down...