45 replies to this topic

[TylerSalzman]

Daniel or anyone I guess, can you back this statement up with anything? There is mass chaos in several countries in the world (mostly in africa) and it doesn't make the rest of the world go into mass chaos. When did the US become the world police? it just makes me sad when I see how crappy our education system is, while we pour billions of dollars into a war that doesn't appear necessary.

[Pot Odds RAC]

Daniel or anyone I guess, can you back this statement up with anything? There is mass chaos in a lot of countries in the world (mostly in africa) and it doesn't make the rest of the world go into mass chaos. When did the US become the world police? it just makes me sad when I see how crappy our education system is, while we poor billions of dollars into a war that doesn't appear necessary.

So...

...you criticize how "crappy our education system is" while we "poor billions"...

...umm.....

ok.

were did you graduate?

You need a rebate.

Ignorance is sinful.

Ignorance proudfully displayed is something else.

[Oziumrules]

I witnessed MASS CHAOS once. The local Burger King ran out of Shrek toys and all hell broke loose.

[davezz5]

So...

...you criticize how "crappy our education system is" while we "poor billions"...

...umm.....

ok.

were did you graduate?

You need a rebate.

Ignorance is sinful.

Ignorance proudfully displayed is something else.

He proved his point.

[Pot Odds RAC]

He proved his point.

To whom?

...not me. He revealed himself as semi literate and a walking contradiction. Pretyy funny actually.

[11 to 1]

To whom?

...not me. He revealed himself as semi literate and a walking contradiction. Pretyy funny actually.

Almost as funny as pretyy. Or you posturing as some sort of grammarian.

Had a great poster on the wall when I was in my twenties: "Killing for peace is like f**king for chastity."

The idea that "once in we have no choice but to stay" is just ludicrous. Well, it's Viet Nam.

And you all know what a great success that was.

[MychCumstien]

The idea that "once in we have no choice but to stay" is just ludicrous. Well, it's Viet Nam.

Are you all familiar with the expression "the best defense is a good offense"?

If we pull out of Iraq now, where do you think this war is headed? I'll give you a hint, it's not going to magically go away on it's own. If we pull out now or in the near future, Iraq will become "Iran-West" and global terrorism as a whole will rise to higher levels than pre-911. The "war" will simply take a short little hop across the pond, and before you know it, we'll be seeing car bombs (or worse) in down town Manhattan, London, Berlin, etc.

The only reason we're not seeing this now is because Iraq is the front line, and we're keeping their heads down over there on their own soil. Once we pull out (it's not a question of "if" but "when" when the Dems take over in 08), we'll have announced to the world and to our enemies that we do not have the stomach for this war, and that we can be "beat". We will have ruined our credibility world wide, and this will only serve to invite more attacks on our own soil.

Then what?

Now IMO we should never have invaded Iraq in the first place, but at this point it's a moot point. We did (thanks GW F*ing A** clown); we broke their country, and now IMO we do have an obligation to fix it. We've created the chaos we see over there now, and if we fail to fix it, we're going to have much larger "issues" than the education system in this country.

By destabilizing Iraq, we've created a power vaccum in the middle east leaving Iran unchecked. Why do you think we're still there? We're fighting Iran in Iraq. If you think Al Qaida is bad now, how much worse do you think it will be for us with Iran backing them after we leave? By the way, they have a huge bank roll, they hate us, and oh yeah, they have a nuclear program? Great! Thanks GW!! for F*ing us right in the A**.

Bottom line, the situation in Iraq is terrible, but I don't think we can safely pull out without making things ten times worse for ourselves down the road. My $0.02 anyway.

[TylerSalzman]

So...

...you criticize how "crappy our education system is" while we "poor billions"...

...umm.....

ok.

were did you graduate?

You need a rebate.

Ignorance is sinful.

Ignorance proudfully displayed is something else.

my apologies, I wrote it in a big hurry with no proof reading.

[TylerSalzman]

To whom?

...not me. He revealed himself as semi literate and a walking contradiction. Pretyy funny actually.

happens to the best of us

[TylerSalzman]

Are you all familiar with the expression "the best defense is a good offense"?

If we pull out of Iraq now, where do you think this war is headed? I'll give you a hint, it's not going to magically go away on it's own. If we pull out now or in the near future, Iraq will become "Iran-West" and global terrorism as a whole will rise to higher levels than pre-911. The "war" will simply take a short little hop across the pond, and before you know it, we'll be seeing car bombs (or worse) in down town Manhattan, London, Berlin, etc.

The only reason we're not seeing this now is because Iraq is the front line, and we're keeping their heads down over there on their own soil. Once we pull out (it's not a question of "if" but "when" when the Dems take over in 08), we'll have announced to the world and to our enemies that we do not have the stomach for this war, and that we can be "beat". We will have ruined our credibility world wide, and this will only serve to invite more attacks on our own soil.

Then what?

Now IMO we should never have invaded Iraq in the first place, but at this point it's a moot point. We did (thanks GW F*ing A** clown); we broke their country, and now IMO we do have an obligation to fix it. We've created the chaos we see over there now, and if we fail to fix it, we're going to have much larger "issues" than the education system in this country.

By destabilizing Iraq, we've created a power vaccum in the middle east leaving Iran unchecked. Why do you think we're still there? We're fighting Iran in Iraq. If you think Al Qaida is bad now, how much worse do you think it will be for us with Iran backing them after we leave? By the way, they have a huge bank roll, they hate us, and oh yeah, they have a nuclear program? Great! Thanks GW!! for F*ing us right in the A**.

Bottom line, the situation in Iraq is terrible, but I don't think we can safely pull out without making things ten times worse for ourselves down the road. My $0.02 anyway.

Okay, now here are my thoughts. I like daniel and respect his oppinions, but I just feel like this statement was a bit over the top. I can see some benefit of being in Iraq. I've talked to many friends who have served over there and they tell me that bascially by being over there we are easy access to everyone that hates us. Maybe our views just differ on what mass chaos would be worldwide, but I don't see the world going to hell just because one country does. There MIGHT be a few more terrorist acts if we weren't there, but really, what's stopping them from doing them now? We really aren't making arabs/muslims like us more by being there either.

[chrozzo]

I witnessed MASS CHAOS once. The local Burger King ran out of Shrek toys and all hell broke loose.

+1

[Pot Odds RAC]

happens to the best of us

Apparently.

[Balloon guy]

happens to the best of us

[nutzbuster]

I witnessed MASS CHAOS once. The local Burger King ran out of Shrek toys and all hell broke loose.

Now there is a World Crisis!


And Tyler, this part of "MychCumstien"'s response is all you need to know...

Bottom line, the situation in Iraq is terrible, but I don't think we can safely pull out without making things ten times worse for ourselves down the road.

There just is no way around this. It would be great to just bail out and let that country self destruct.

But can you imagine the additional criticism by the world if we run away what we started and just let the whole thing burn to the ground? Can you imagine the level of B S the country would get?



Imagine it this way (albeit a ridiculously overly simplistic example)...

You and a bunch of your school mates to go out into the woods after school and start a little bonfire.

Most of the kids are all for it...a few are a little skeptical "I dunno man" and a few more immediately run away "I'm telling my mom and Dad on you!"

So with most of the group still intact and ready to do this, you all go out in the woods, build a little rock enclosure and start the little fire.

And it goes fairly well at first ...but then the wind picks up and blows a few sparks out of the rock circle and sure as hell the surrounding grass starts up. Nothing huge but it's obvious you have a situation.

Well... now you are all standing back just staring in shock at what is happening. One or 2 of you immediately start gabbing blankets and your own two feet and start vigorously stomping and swatting at the flames in an attempt to keep it all contained.

Many in the group panic and run away, while several others are standing close by but only offer shouts of encouragement as you pound the ground with your feeble attempts to keep the fire from spreading.

You are having a hell of a time, but now more of the group says "screw this sh*t" and also run away, leaving just a couple of you to deal with the situation. So there you are, relatively alone, exhausted, scared and trying desperately everything in you power to do the right thing and control the unintended chaos you started.

The good news is, as bad as the fire is, you ARE having some success keeping the fire from spreading to the rest of the forest.


So now I ask you.....

If YOU TOO were to just run away and let the fire take care of itself...... what do you think would happen?



Especially once your parents find out, and then the entire village finds out that your solution to the problem was not to keep trying to put out he fire, BUT INSTEAD TO RUN AWAY FROM THE FIRE AND HOPE IT PUTS ITSELF OUT!



Make sense?


The argument is no longer should we have started this fire (war).

The argument is what do we NOW do about it and is running away the best option?

The answer seems pretty damn clear, don't you agree?



Peace. (someday...)

[Balloon guy]

Okay, now here are my thoughts. I like daniel and respect his oppinions, but I just feel like this statement was a bit over the top. I can see some benefit of being in Iraq. I've talked to many friends who have served over there and they tell me that bascially by being over there we are easy access to everyone that hates us. Maybe our views just differ on what mass chaos would be worldwide, but I don't see the world going to hell just because one country does. There MIGHT be a few more terrorist acts if we weren't there, but really, what's stopping them from doing them now? We really aren't making arabs/muslims like us more by being there either.

Okay let me try to explain my side.

Imagine your sweater is on fire.......just kidding.

The reason Iraq is different than most countries has 3 reasons:

#1: They have oil, oil is the life blood of world economies. If Japan doesn't get cheap oil they start raising prices to compensate, this creates inflation. Inflation is hard to slow down, but impossible when the underlying reasons are not addressed. But another thing to think about is that oil is a commodity that makes the owner of it rich. Keep that point for later:

#2: They are in the middle east. Israel is in the Middle east, they have been attacked 4 times since their founding by their neighbors. They have a no Masada policy, and they have nukes. If the middle east erupts, then it is a very real possiblity that a nuclear exchange happens. Which can easily escalate, easily. Pakistan, Russia, India, Kuzebenistan, etc all in the region all with nukes, many with heavy muslim population. Better to not let the fight get started than to try to stop it after the missles are fired.

#3: Iraq is mostly muslim and the regional muslim people are showing themselves to be unable to stop the radical muslims at all. They don't stop the schools from teaching that Jews are less than animals, they don't stop their religious leaders from teaching their kids to strap on bombs and blow up kids, they don't stop their news from showing beheadings and giving al Queda a free airways to say anything they want. Whether the majority of muslims are peace loving or not, they don't stop the bad guys. Now give th bad guys a chance at getting hold of the oil they can do two things: stop the flow, and thus severly hurting many coutries economies. Or worse: sell the oil and get hold of vast billions of dollars. I don't know about you but they're bad enough with their millions they get from Saudi etc. Billions and 9-11 will be a footnote in the history books.


So many people are on the "we never should have gone to war, but now we have to make the best we can do" camp.

The only people really saying let's just leave are not thinking it through, or are evil. No way you can really be serious and say let's let them work it out.



And as far as our troops attracting the people that hate us, that is a good thing. I would much rather have a well armed marine division facing terrorist, then an embassy worker in Nigeria, or a stock trader in New York, or a poker player in Vegas. Too bad they won't all line up and let us shoot them all and then come home.

[Pot Odds RAC]

And as far as our troops attracting the people that hate us, that is a good thing. I would much rather have a well armed marine division facing terrorist, then an embassy worker in Nigeria, or a stock trader in New York, or a poker player in Vegas. Too bad they won't all line up and let us shoot them all and then come home.

[kirbynator]

You fail, gj.

[akoff]

Okay let me try to explain my side.

Imagine your sweater is on fire.......just kidding.

The reason Iraq is different than most countries has 3 reasons:

#1: They have oil, oil is the life blood of world economies. If Japan doesn't get cheap oil they start raising prices to compensate, this creates inflation. Inflation is hard to slow down, but impossible when the underlying reasons are not addressed. But another thing to think about is that oil is a commodity that makes the owner of it rich. Keep that point for later:

#2: They are in the middle east. Israel is in the Middle east, they have been attacked 4 times since their founding by their neighbors. They have a no Masada policy, and they have nukes. If the middle east erupts, then it is a very real possiblity that a nuclear exchange happens. Which can easily escalate, easily. Pakistan, Russia, India, Kuzebenistan, etc all in the region all with nukes, many with heavy muslim population. Better to not let the fight get started than to try to stop it after the missles are fired.

#3: Iraq is mostly muslim and the regional muslim people are showing themselves to be unable to stop the radical muslims at all. They don't stop the schools from teaching that Jews are less than animals, they don't stop their religious leaders from teaching their kids to strap on bombs and blow up kids, they don't stop their news from showing beheadings and giving al Queda a free airways to say anything they want. Whether the majority of muslims are peace loving or not, they don't stop the bad guys. Now give th bad guys a chance at getting hold of the oil they can do two things: stop the flow, and thus severly hurting many coutries economies. Or worse: sell the oil and get hold of vast billions of dollars. I don't know about you but they're bad enough with their millions they get from Saudi etc. Billions and 9-11 will be a footnote in the history books.
So many people are on the "we never should have gone to war, but now we have to make the best we can do" camp.

The only people really saying let's just leave are not thinking it through, or are evil. No way you can really be serious and say let's let them work it out.
And as far as our troops attracting the people that hate us, that is a good thing. I would much rather have a well armed marine division facing terrorist, then an embassy worker in Nigeria, or a stock trader in New York, or a poker player in Vegas. Too bad they won't all line up and let us shoot them all and then come home.

well said!

[nutzbuster]

Okay let me try to explain my side.

Imagine your sweater is on fire.......just kidding.

Bawahaaaaaa!!!!

[chrozzo]

politics aside...IM FOR THE TROOPS!!!!!!