What Happens To Religion When...

[Jadaki 1]

we find other lifeforms in space, is the bible going to be rewritten to include that God created them too?Scientists find potentially hospitable planet

WASHINGTON - For the first time astronomers have discovered a planet outside our solar system that is potentially habitable, with Earth-like temperatures, a find researchers described Tuesday as a big step in the search for "life in the universe."

[fighter 4]

If there is ever going to be an event that disproves all religions in one action then that would be it. (contact with life not just a habitable planet) However i think what will happen is the same thing that happend in south park, they will just try and send missionaries.

[hblask 1]

"The bible was written for Earthlings, so of course it doesn't mention life on other planets. That doesn't mean God didn't create it. The universe is infinite, the bible is finite, so of course some stuff got left out."Lesson: Don't argue with non-falsifiable theories.

[Loismustdie 0]

we find other lifeforms in space, is the bible going to be rewritten to include that God created them too?Scientists find potentially hospitable planet

No. Did you read the whole article. The part where is says it is preliminary, alot of work needs to be done,and really not a whole lot is known yet? Jadaki- note to self. Must not get news from Yahoo blurbs. Just kidding- really, why would lifeforms outside of earth be an issue? I don't think the bible says there will not be.

[renaedawn 1]

No. Did you read the whole article. The part where is says it is preliminary, alot of work needs to be done,and really not a whole lot is known yet? Jadaki- note to self. Must not get news from Yahoo blurbs. Just kidding- really, why would lifeforms outside of earth be an issue? I don't think the bible says there will not be.

Well, one of the problems is going to be when they look nothing like us. How do you explain that whole "in his image" thing then?That's after you somehow find a loophole around the whole other planets that were never mentioned part.

[crowTrobot 2]

"The bible was written for Earthlings, so of course it doesn't mention life on other planets. That doesn't mean God didn't create it. The universe is infinite, the bible is finite, so of course some stuff got left out."Lesson: Don't argue with non-falsifiable theories.

that's only non-falsifiable in the impractical sense that the FSM is non-falsifiable. for practical purposes it is logically falsifiable.

[hblask 1]

that's only non-falsifiable in the impractical sense that the FSM is non-falsifiable. for practical purposes it is logically falsifiable.

Sorry, what's FSM?I don't see a way to falsify the statement "God created humanity in a way that leaves the world in it's current state."

[Jadaki 1]

Just kidding- really, why would lifeforms outside of earth be an issue? I don't think the bible says there will not be.

Well, one of the problems is going to be when they look nothing like us. How do you explain that whole "in his image" thing then?That's after you somehow find a loophole around the whole other planets that were never mentioned part.

Nail -> HeadGranted it's been a long time since I read the bible, but the existence of another life form not on Earth would pretty much shoot holes in a lot of the bible, don't you think? You know the 7 days to create Earth... they just skip everything else?

[hblask 1]

Nail -> HeadGranted it's been a long time since I read the bible, but the existence of another life form not on Earth would pretty much shoot holes in a lot of the bible, don't you think? You know the 7 days to create Earth... they just skip everything else?

I already know the answer to this one: "'Day' to God is not the same as the current human version of day." And I think it says "heaven and earth", where heavan = everything not earth. See, this is easy.

[crowTrobot 2]

I don't see a way to falsify the statement "God created humanity in a way that leaves the world in it's current state."

by your reasoning there's no way to falsify the statement "the flying spaghetti monster created humanity in its current state". you are using a philosophical concept of falsifiability that has no practical value - it can be applied to ANYthing you choose to say.if you want to drop the dead-end philosophical approach, for practical purposes the statement "god created humanity" is already falsified by 100% of empirical evidence indicating natural selection created humanity.

[Loismustdie 0]

Well, one of the problems is going to be when they look nothing like us. How do you explain that whole "in his image" thing then?That's after you somehow find a loophole around the whole other planets that were never mentioned part.

In his image is not physical. It's spiritual. We are spirit beings. So, that is out of the way. You are also assumeing that when the supposed, never found as of yet lifeforms are actually found, they will have no bible and no God. What if they do? The exact same bible and the exact same God? What then? What if they have the exact same systems, problems that we do? What if they struggle with the notion of a creator as well? As long as we are what-iffing, might as well throw in all of the what-ifs. Also, what loophole? God created the heavens and the earth. How does that leave a loophole? That is basically saying anything out there is there because of him. Where is the loophole?

[renaedawn 1]

In his image is not physical. It's spiritual. We are spirit beings. So, that is out of the way. You are also assumeing that when the supposed, never found as of yet lifeforms are actually found, they will have no bible and no God. What if they do? The exact same bible and the exact same God? What then? What if they have the exact same systems, problems that we do? What if they struggle with the notion of a creator as well? As long as we are what-iffing, might as well throw in all of the what-ifs. Also, what loophole? God created the heavens and the earth. How does that leave a loophole? That is basically saying anything out there is there because of him. Where is the loophole?

See, I keep forgetting that you speak for all Christians. If you could just get your brethern to quit trying to confuse us all by saying things that they obviously don't believe, that would be helpful.

[Loismustdie 0]

See, I keep forgetting that you speak for all Christians. If you could just get your brethern to quit trying to confuse us all by saying things that they obviously don't believe, that would be helpful.

Ask them to back it up with scripture. That would help. Oftentimes, what happens is personal belief gets tied into doctrine. I don't believe you could find one scripture that says,"God only created humans on the earth." Can you? I have never seen it. I think what happens alot as well is people get confused while arguing about things that don't matter, like this.

[fighter 4]

In his image is not physical. It's spiritual. We are spirit beings. So, that is out of the way. You are also assumeing that when the supposed, never found as of yet lifeforms are actually found, they will have no bible and no God. What if they do? The exact same bible and the exact same God? What then? What if they have the exact same systems, problems that we do? What if they struggle with the notion of a creator as well? As long as we are what-iffing, might as well throw in all of the what-ifs. Also, what loophole? God created the heavens and the earth. How does that leave a loophole? That is basically saying anything out there is there because of him. Where is the loophole?

We cant even find that in other countries! What if they have the exact same Quran. FSM= Flying Spaghetti Monster , it is a parady of ID(intelligent design) Since in ID they never metion god. The arguement to be used. The bible doesnt mention anything about the Chinese or dinosaurs but that doesnt mean they were not around. If you want history get a history book, if you want spiritral enlightenment get a bible (or Quran)

[Loismustdie 0]

We cant even find that in other countries! What if they have the exact same Quran. FSM= Flying Spaghetti Monster , it is a parady of ID(intelligent design) Since in ID they never metion god. The arguement to be used. The bible doesnt mention anything about the Chinese or dinosaurs but that doesnt mean they were not around. If you want history get a history book, if you want spiritral enlightenment get a bible (or Quran)

Incidentally, I don't buy the whole Dinosaur thing. Whole other topic, thankfully it means nothing in the grand scheme.

[Jadaki 1]

Incidentally, I don't buy the whole Dinosaur thing. Whole other topic, thankfully it means nothing in the grand scheme.

Are you saying dinosaurs never existed?Your what if of running into another species from space that happens to have the same bible would be interesting if anyone with common sense thought it was possible.

Also, what loophole? God created the heavens and the earth. How does that leave a loophole? That is basically saying anything out there is there because of him. Where is the loophole?

So is heaven a spiritual place or a physical one, because space is physical... people have been there. Some astronaut just ran a marathon in a space station, I don't really think when the bible refers to "heavens" it was talking about the moon. The loophole is that you interpret the heavens as space. Is that where you think you go when you die? There a nice spot on Jupiter waiting for you?

[hblask 1]

by your reasoning there's no way to falsify the statement "the flying spaghetti monster created humanity in its current state". you are using a philosophical concept of falsifiability that has no practical value - it can be applied to ANYthing you choose to say.if you want to drop the dead-end philosophical approach, for practical purposes the statement "god created humanity" is already falsified by 100% of empirical evidence indicating natural selection created humanity.

That's not true. All real science is falsifiable. For example, if a new species with a large population suddenly appeared, and had no genetic relation to existing species, that would prove evolution is false, at least in that specific case, and would cast severe doubt on the rest of evolution. Or if a double blind study showed that headaches disappeared just as quickly with or without aspirin, the statement "aspirin cures headache pain" would be falsified. And yes, the FSM (got the reference) is another example of a non-falsifiable concept, which is why it is used in the debate against Intelligent Design. I can't think of any real science that is NOT falsifiable, although certainly much of it would be difficult to prove false, and much of it is relatively speculative (e.g., superstring theory of physics).

[hblask 1]

In his image is not physical. It's spiritual. We are spirit beings. So, that is out of the way. You are also assumeing that when the supposed, never found as of yet lifeforms are actually found, they will have no bible and no God. What if they do? The exact same bible and the exact same God? What then? What if they have the exact same systems, problems that we do? What if they struggle with the notion of a creator as well? As long as we are what-iffing, might as well throw in all of the what-ifs. Also, what loophole? God created the heavens and the earth. How does that leave a loophole? That is basically saying anything out there is there because of him. Where is the loophole?

I would have to say, if we found life on another star system that had the exact same bible, and there was no evidence that they could've received it from Earth (e.g., via stray radio waves), that would pretty much prove the existence of God. On the other hand, an intelligent lifeform that believed in honesty and goodness and had a written system of beliefs attributed to supernatural causes would be an interesting coincidence, but not proof of anything except that introspection is a positively selected evolutionary trait. The degree of similarity would have to be pretty high to accept the theory of a common source.

[Loismustdie 0]

Are you saying dinosaurs never existed?Your what if of running into another species from space that happens to have the same bible would be interesting if anyone with common sense thought it was possible.So is heaven a spiritual place or a physical one, because space is physical... people have been there. Some astronaut just ran a marathon in a space station, I don't really think when the bible refers to "heavens" it was talking about the moon. The loophole is that you interpret the heavens as space. Is that where you think you go when you die? There a nice spot on Jupiter waiting for you?

Interpet heaven as heaven and HEAVENS(plural) as just that, the surrounding everything around earth. So, common sense says there must be something else out there, even though there is no proof whatsoever, anywhere, yet if I throw in "what if they have bibles" it becomes ridiculous? The idea that this is even a discussion is ridiculous because there is nothing to say that there is anything else but us. Heaven is not a physical place, it is spiritual. "God created the heavens and the earth" is saying just that, not to mention he actually mentions stars, etc. I realize you are just doing your best to make any argumnet possible, but come one. I am saying that I personally do not think Dinosaurs as advertised existed. That's all. Like I said, it's a good thing it means **** in the long run and is useless knowledge anyway. Have you ever used your knowledge of dinosaurs in your job. Didn't think so.

[Loismustdie 0]

I would have to say, if we found life on another star system that had the exact same bible, and there was no evidence that they could've received it from Earth (e.g., via stray radio waves), that would pretty much prove the existence of God. On the other hand, an intelligent lifeform that believed in honesty and goodness and had a written system of beliefs attributed to supernatural causes would be an interesting coincidence, but not proof of anything except that introspection is a positively selected evolutionary trait. The degree of similarity would have to be pretty high to accept the theory of a common source.

Or, stray radio waves would be proof that God indeed does get his word to seeking souls. Also, why intelligent? Why come they couldn,t be just dumies?

[crowTrobot 2]

That's not true. All real science is falsifiable. For example, if a new species with a large population suddenly appeared, and had no genetic relation to existing species, that would prove evolution is false, at least in that specific case, and would cast severe doubt on the rest of evolution. Or if a double blind study showed that headaches disappeared just as quickly with or without aspirin, the statement "aspirin cures headache pain" would be falsified. And yes, the FSM (got the reference) is another example of a non-falsifiable concept, which is why it is used in the debate against Intelligent Design. I can't think of any real science that is NOT falsifiable, although certainly much of it would be difficult to prove false, and much of it is relatively speculative (e.g., superstring theory of physics).

i agree real science is based on falsifiability, but you are using a double standard. from the standpoint of scientific logic there is no difference between statements like "god created humans" and "aspirin cures headaches". you are just applying a philosophical approach to the former and a scientific approach to the latter. using a scientific approach "god created humans" is absolutely a falsifiable statement.

[hblask 1]

i agree real science is based on falsifiability, but you are using a double standard. from the standpoint of scientific logic there is no difference between statements like "god created humans" and "aspirin cures headaches". you are just applying a philosophical approach to the former and a scientific approach to the latter. using a scientific approach "god created humans" is absolutely a falsifiable statement.

What would it take to falsify the bolded statement? What evidence would you require?

[hblask 1]

Or, stray radio waves would be proof that God indeed does get his word to seeking souls. Also, why intelligent? Why come they couldn,t be just dumies?

God invented stray radio waves for the purpose of spreading the word through the universe? Methinks you're stretching it a bit there.By intelligent, I meant sentient; capable of introspection. Without that, there can be no belief in anything.

[crowTrobot 2]

What would it take to falsify the bolded statement? What evidence would you require?

i don't require anything. as i said the evidence that god did not create man already exists - in the form of natural selection, the purely mechanical nature of the universe, and all things related. in the scientific (practical) sense "god created man" has already been falsified. it's a theory without supporting evidence and with much contradictory evidence, and it should be abandoned.

[Loismustdie 0]

God invented stray radio waves for the purpose of spreading the word through the universe? Methinks you're stretching it a bit there.By intelligent, I meant sentient; capable of introspection. Without that, there can be no belief in anything.

I am telling you what the spin would be, and no, not invented, used. I am stretching it? You are the one worried about life on other planets, not I.