Kkxx Ds, Facing 2 All-ins

[timwakefield 69]

$10 + single rebuy and add-on. About 15 players left. My table is relatively shortstacked - I would say the average stack on the other table was around 30-40k. Anyways, table is generally tight, no specific reads. Thoughts on the call from the button? MP1 could easily have AAxx here (I find that most people bet the max with aces), and if I re-raise him he's usually only calling with that hand pretty much. Basically I think the button call is fine, but now I've gotten myself into a pickle. Does this look like a good spot to gamble? Or should I just fold since SB almost always has aces there?Poker StarsPot Limit Omaha TournamentBlinds: t600/t12007 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: t33880UTG+1: t30500MP1: t16549CO: t32620Hero: t25820SB: t17064BB: t36425Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with K K 5 8 2 folds, MP1 raises to t4200, CO folds, Hero calls t4200 (pot was t6000), SB raises all-in t17064, BB folds, MP1 calls all-in t12349,

[BudBundy 0]

In a three way pot you aren't in a very bad shape with double suited kings. But in a tourney i believe you should wait for a better spot to put your stack in rather than putting it in preflop with kings. You almost always have a good edge postflop (because majority of the omaha players are donks ) why try to take advantage of a very slight edge preflop and kill your advantage postflop?I don't think it makes any sense the way i wrote it but i hope you get the point.

[navybuttons 16]

In a three way pot you aren't in a very bad shape with double suited kings. But in a tourney i believe you should wait for a better spot to put your stack in rather than putting it in preflop with kings. You almost always have a good edge postflop (because majority of the omaha players are donks ) why try to take advantage of a very slight edge preflop and kill your advantage postflop?I don't think it makes any sense the way i wrote it but i hope you get the point.

in most omaha cash games i play, i am often the loosest person at the table. in tourney's i'm the tightest preflop. if you're fine with the first call, i'll just discuss the call of the re-raise. you're hand has the same relative value as 9956ds. you'll still have chips and being that we're close to the big money, i'd be willing to let go of the hand in the = EV situation.

[timwakefield 69]

in most omaha cash games i play, i am often the loosest person at the table. in tourney's i'm the tightest preflop. if you're fine with the first call, i'll just discuss the call of the re-raise. you're hand has the same relative value as 9956ds. you'll still have chips and being that we're close to the big money, i'd be willing to let go of the hand in the = EV situation.

I should have said earlier, but the payouts are not spectacular. About 130 entrants at $10, plus single rebuy and add-on. First pays like 850, 2nd pays like 600, but down to like 7th or 8th is about 125, not exactly big money. If I fold then I'm sitting about 12/15, and if I call and scoop I'm sitting about 1/15. I would like to hear your thoughts on the original call. Would you let it go there? DS kings on the button look good to me, especially with a relatively short stack who's potting it (which to me means that he'll usually open on the flop with another pot-sized bet, i.e. if I hit I can stack him)

[simo_8ball 1]

Yeah, wait for a better spot. If your xx was more connected I would agree with a call.

[navybuttons 16]

I should have said earlier, but the payouts are not spectacular. About 130 entrants at $10, plus single rebuy and add-on. First pays like 850, 2nd pays like 600, but down to like 7th or 8th is about 125, not exactly big money. If I fold then I'm sitting about 12/15, and if I call and scoop I'm sitting about 1/15.

with that payout structure, i'd be way way way more inclined now to ship it in here and take the gamble. giving into block theory and knowing that i can use those chips to sail into the final table in the top 3 would be the biggest factor.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the original call. Would you let it go there? DS kings on the button look good to me, especially with a relatively short stack who's potting it (which to me means that he'll usually open on the flop with another pot-sized bet, i.e. if I hit I can stack him)

i feel position matters way less in PLO tourneys than it does in cash games, meaning i'm looking for preflop spots to ship. i think the first decision is a re-pot or a fold, and i lean towards re-pot.

[iloveplaypokr 0]

$10 + single rebuy and add-on. About 15 players left. My table is relatively shortstacked - I would say the average stack on the other table was around 30-40k. Anyways, table is generally tight, no specific reads. Thoughts on the call from the button? MP1 could easily have AAxx here (I find that most people bet the max with aces), and if I re-raise him he's usually only calling with that hand pretty much. Basically I think the button call is fine, but now I've gotten myself into a pickle. Does this look like a good spot to gamble? Or should I just fold since SB almost always has aces there?Poker StarsPot Limit Omaha TournamentBlinds: t600/t12007 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: t33880UTG+1: t30500MP1: t16549CO: t32620Hero: t25820SB: t17064BB: t36425Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is Button with K K 5 8 2 folds, MP1 raises to t4200, CO folds, Hero calls t4200 (pot was t6000), SB raises all-in t17064, BB folds, MP1 calls all-in t12349,

Wow... kind of a tough situation. It would be very hard to believe that neither player has Aces. In fact, it's slightly possible that they both do. Or... the SB has KKxx possibly and thinks he might actually have the best hand if the original rasier doesn't have Aces? I think the original call is fine but I probably fold facing two all-in bets.

[iloveplaypokr 0]

i feel position matters way less in PLO tourneys than it does in cash games, meaning i'm looking for preflop spots to ship. i think the first decision is a re-pot or a fold, and i lean towards re-pot.

My infantile PLO mind was also thinking about this and it came to the conclusion that MP1 is probably going all the way with his hand given what the pot size would be if Hero called and all others folded. Just a c-bet would be committing himself so Hero is probably better off re-potting if he feels he's against anything besides AAxx.Maybe?And if he's worried about AAxx and thinks it's likely possible, then isn't folding preflop the correct choice?

[navybuttons 16]

My infantile PLO mind was also thinking about this and it came to the conclusion that MP1 is probably going all the way with his hand given what the pot size would be if Hero called and all others folded. Just a c-bet would be committing himself so Hero is probably better off re-potting if he feels he's against anything besides AAxx.Maybe?And if he's worried about AAxx and thinks it's likely possible, then isn't folding preflop the correct choice?

i did some really rough calculations to check our equity against ranges.unsuited aces no copy: 37.36%aces one suit no copy: 35.1%aces one suit (club or spade): 31.2%unsuited aces one copy ( the five): 35.86%against all these aces hands i think its safe to say our equity is roughly 35% when he has aces.against other shoving hands:high wrap: 56%queens and high: 67.5%ds red 6-9: 61.8%our average equity against non-aces hands is around 61%.if we say his hand is aces 40% of the time (although i think this number is really high with no read; i think more likely its closer to 30% assigning more combinations to the other hands) it makes it a clear repop, especially given the flat top-heavy (1-5 is most of the money) payout structure and fold equity.if we have a read and can say his hand is aces 47%- maybe 75% (just guessing numbers here) of the time, then i think stacks are just deep enough to smooth call.

[iloveplaypokr 0]

Did you use PokerStove to figure out our equity here?

[simo_8ball 1]

Unfortunately there is no PokerStove for Omaha. However, there is TwoDimes.net

[navybuttons 16]

Did you use PokerStove to figure out our equity here?

i just use the pretty but not 105% accurate cardplayer calculator.