20 replies to this topic

[NEtwowilldo]

PokerStars Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

MP1 (t1590)
MP2 (t1490)
MP3 (t1720)
CO (t1470)
Button (t1470)
SB (t1460)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1460)
UTG+1 (t1340)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A , A .
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB, t170) T , A , 6 (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB, t250) 6 (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (12.25 BB, t490) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB (t570)

So yeah I was a little worried no one else had anything and I wouldn't get paid, but should I have check raised the river, or done something else fancy? They say the most straightforward play is usually the correct one so I decided to play it safe.

[Zach6668]

Don't play fancy.

100% standard.

[simo_8ball]

You would hate to see it checked round on the turn, and it is a distinct possibility here. There are times for checkraising 4th or 5th, but this isn't one of them.

[Viper_13]

should I have check raised the river, or done something else fancy?

No.

[Actuary]

olny if you think he bets the river 1/2 the time or more, and calls a c/r 100% (that last part is a pretty certain)

Had he capped the turn, I like a river c/r

If you check to him..... man... I might have to disagree with others here.

Since Villain did not cap turn, you are about never getting raised here.
So, the only chance for multiple bets is to let him think his trip 6s, or AT are good.

I'll say, yes, River Check is slightly +ev. It's very close.

And add meta game and its +EV
(pretend metagame exists)

ps. He also may be semin bluff raisng a FD. So perhaps you get a river bluff, occassionally.
Or FD + Ace

[RISEorFall]

the biggest reason not to try a river c/r is that maybe he wants to cap the turn and go multiple bets on the river with you. you would actually end up making less, whereas capping the turn/leading the river makes you the same as calling and c/r river.

[simo_8ball]

maybe he wants to cap the turn

If he wanted to cap the turn, he would have done it.

[RISEorFall]

If he wanted to cap the turn, he would have done it.

if we just call his turn raise in an attempt to c/r the river, we dont give him the chance to cap the turn.

my point is not that he does, but that we give him the chance to. if we just call the turn raise and c/r the river, we get 2-6 bets out of him (sometimes he does not bet the river, though I think if he raises this turn he bets the river when checked to on this board.)

by 3-betting the turn we can make 3-8 bets on him. if he raises the turn he usually won't fold to a 3-bet, and we give him the chance to cap the turn and put in atleast one more bet on the river if he wants to. He may have something like TT or a 6 and wants to cap the turn and the river. by not raising the turn, we dont give him that chance and sometimes miss out on a bet or two when raising the turn/betting the river will make as much money as calling the turn and c/r the river.

[Actuary]

who thinks he won't bet the river enough to make a c/r better than leading?

[RISEorFall]

who thinks he won't bet the river enough to make a c/r better than leading?

after our turn 3-bet, i dont think he bets the river that often

[Zach6668]

who thinks he won't bet the river enough to make a c/r better than leading?

I think a lot of players check behind here after our turn 3-bet, it's one of those weird plays where people will just be content checking it down to see wtf you were doing.

Frankly, this getting checked through 1 in 100 times is enough drive me insane.

I'm too tired, but what is the math here, how often does he have to check behind, give he always calls our raise when he bets, and always calls our bet when we lead? What is the breakeven %age?

[Actuary]

I'm too tired, but what is the math here, how often does he have to check behind, give he always calls our raise when he bets, and always calls our bet when we lead? What is the breakeven %age?

He has to bet 50%.

Add to that:

- when he was semi bluffing, a check gives him a chance to hang himself
- when he was semi bluffing, he folds to a lead.

I think a lot of hands that call a lead, bet if cheked to.
50% or more, yeah, close.
Plus, I'd love to get a free SD OOP sometimes..down the road

[Zach6668]

Good call on the metagame aspect, didn't think of that.

[RISEorFall]

He has to bet 50%.

Add to that:

- when he was semi bluffing, a check gives him a chance to hang himself
- when he was semi bluffing, he folds to a lead.

I think a lot of hands that call a lead, bet if cheked to.
50% or more, yeah, close.
Plus, I'd love to get a free SD OOP sometimes..down the road

i think youd have to make this play with a good hand several times to start getting free showdowns oop

i also think the guy would bet around 50% of the time, but I absolutely hate losing value when we don't go ahead and bet here


also, my main point is that 3-betting the turn is way better than just calling it and c/r the river.

[Actuary]

i think youd have to make this play with a good hand several times to start getting free showdowns oop

i also think the guy would bet around 50% of the time, but I absolutely hate losing value when we don't go ahead and bet here
also, my main point is that 3-betting the turn is way better than just calling it and c/r the river.

that last point, is very true.
I was a horrible violator of not getting value on the turn, constantly miscalculating the value of 2 bets on River + 2 on Turn, vs 3 on turn and At least 1 on river.
The idea has it's place; but not on this hand.

This missing value if it's checked thru on River though, is a sily argmument
If he bets 50%, you LOSE VALUE LEADING!

[RISEorFall]

This missing value if it's checked thru on River though, is a sily argmument
If he bets 50%, you LOSE VALUE LEADING!

that's a good point.
sometimes its much harder to think of long term when you just want to get paid off with your big hands

the turn is still an easy 3-bet AINEC

[Actuary]

the turn is still an easy 3-bet AINEC

for the record, is anyone disputing this?

water is wet.

[RISEorFall]

that last point, is very true.
I was a horrible violator of not getting value on the turn, constantly miscalculating the value of 2 bets on River + 2 on Turn, vs 3 on turn and At least 1 on river.
The idea has it's place; but not on this hand.

it sounded to me like someone was

[Actuary]

it sounded to me like someone was

he was saying that the idea of NOT 3-betting on the turn has it's place sometimes; but not here.
He said he agree with "that last point, is very true.".

At least that's how I read it

[RISEorFall]

he was saying that the idea of NOT 3-betting on the turn has it's place sometimes; but not here.
He said he agree with "that last point, is very true.".

At least that's how I read it

are you schizo today?
this is the second thread you've talked about youself in first and third person