trying to get better at o8/b

[monoatomic 0]

Okay here is another hand of mine from a O8/b table.Please let me know what you think.(for some reason bison won't covert the hand so here is the hand history..I will post the results later.)#Game No : 1896636461 ***** Hand History for Game 1896636461 *****$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, April 15, 00:00:34 EDT 2005Table Table 37050 (Real Money)Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10 Seat 2: Iggy70 ( $24 )Seat 3: smittymatt ( $32.37 )Seat 4: GypsyHghside ( $26 )Seat 5: Smokin_Hand ( $13.17 )Seat 6: LoserJR ( $24.56 )Seat 7: Allornuthing ( $28.34 )Seat 8: ForMyBrother ( $23.15 )Seat 9: mcjimmy ( $12.67 )Seat 1: Monoatomic72 ( $22.85 )Seat 10: bigbelly6 ( $18.75 )smittymatt posts small blind [$0.1].GypsyHghside posts big blind [$0.25].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Monoatomic72 [ As 3h Js 2h ]Smokin_Hand calls [$0.25].LoserJR folds.Allornuthing calls [$0.25].ForMyBrother folds.mcjimmy calls [$0.25].bigbelly6 folds.Monoatomic72 calls [$0.25].Iggy70 folds.smittymatt raises [$1.4].>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.GypsyHghside folds.Smokin_Hand calls [$1.25].>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.Allornuthing calls [$1.25].mcjimmy calls [$1.25].>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.Monoatomic72 calls [$1.25].** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 8s, 5s ]smittymatt bets [$7.4].Smokin_Hand folds.Allornuthing calls [$7.4].mcjimmy folds.Monoatomic72 is all-In [$21.35]>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.smittymatt is all-In [$23.47]>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.Allornuthing is all-In [$19.44]** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]

[akishore 0]

what's wrong with it?aseem

[akishore 0]

oh, you probably got quartered.don't sweat the results, you played it right.insured nut low (you can't get counterfeited), with a monster draw to both a wheel and the nut flush (9 + 7 = 16 total outs).with two cards to come, you're a heavy heavy heavy heavy heavy favorite to scoop or 3/4.well played, don't worry if you got quartered.aseem

[Swift_Psycho 1]

oh, you probably got quartered.don't sweat the results, you played it right.insured nut low (you can't get counterfeited), with a monster draw to both a wheel and the nut flush (9 + 7 = 16 total outs).with two cards to come, you're a heavy heavy heavy heavy heavy favorite to scoop or 3/4.well played, don't worry if you got quartered.aseem

Agreed. I'm not a terribly good omaha hi/lo player, but I can say pretty confidently that this hand was not misplayed.

[monoatomic 0]

Another hand..Is this the only time EVER in O8/b to slow play?(again for some reason bison won't convert omaha hands for me tonight)Party Poker (9 handed) converter#Game No : 1897168221 ***** Hand History for Game 1897168221 *****$25 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Friday, April 15, 01:49:04 EDT 2005Table Table 37050 (Real Money)Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10 Seat 4: GypsyHghside ( $21.53 )Seat 9: mcjimmy ( $8.95 )Seat 1: Monoatomic72 ( $31.8 )Seat 10: bigbelly6 ( $26.24 )Seat 8: V_Era ( $49.87 )Seat 5: eagle808 ( $23.65 )Seat 2: hotgolfer ( $46.43 )Seat 3: mssngmm ( $19.23 )Seat 6: FarleyWells ( $6.9 )Seat 7: foxyterry ( $21.78 )mssngmm posts small blind [$0.1].GypsyHghside posts big blind [$0.25].foxyterry is sitting out.** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Monoatomic72 [ As 7c Ah 8h ]eagle808 folds.FarleyWells calls [$0.25].>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.V_Era folds.mcjimmy calls [$0.25].>You have options at Table 37061 Table!.bigbelly6 calls [$0.25].Monoatomic72 calls [$0.25].hotgolfer folds.mssngmm folds.GypsyHghside checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, Td, Th ]GypsyHghside checks.FarleyWells checks.mcjimmy checks.bigbelly6 checks.Monoatomic72 bets [$1].All foldMonoatomic72 wins $2.35

[Vade 0]

There's an oppurtunity for a runner-runner low which combined with the one possible remaining 10 in the deck for...Oh fine, just slow play it

[Smasharoo 0]

Agreed. I'm not a terribly good omaha hi/lo player, but I can say pretty confidently that this hand was not misplayed.Sure it was, the turn all in is horrible. What's the point of it? It's certianly not for value.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

Agreed. I'm not a terribly good omaha hi/lo player, but I can say pretty confidently that this hand was not misplayed.Sure it was, the turn all in is horrible. What's the point of it? It's certianly not for value.

I'm sure this doesn't matter to you, but the all in was on the flop.P.S. Congrats on picking my post to pick on after I already admitted that I'm not a good omaha player.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm sure this doesn't matter to you, but the all in was on the flop.P.S. Congrats on picking my post to pick on after I already admitted that I'm not a good omaha player.Ooops, flop all in rather.Pick on? I was just pointing out a mistake in the hand. Isn't that the idea of the thread, or was this a tea party or something that no one told me about. It must suck that you can't risk wearing clothes because they might rip into your organs.Your skin being that thin and all.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I'm sure this doesn't matter to you, but the all in was on the flop.P.S. Congrats on picking my post to pick on after I already admitted that I'm not a good omaha player.Ooops, flop all in rather.Pick on? I was just pointing out a mistake in the hand. Isn't that the idea of the thread, or was this a tea party or something that no one told me about. It must suck that you can't risk wearing clothes because they might rip into your organs.Your skin being that thin and all.

Yes, this is a tea party. I guess they didn't send you a PM about it. And yes I'm naked.

[akishore 0]

why was it a bad push, smash?he had an insured nut low with a strong draw to either a nut high hand or a strong high hand (nut flush or wheel). with 16 outs, he's a favorite to scoop or three-quarter.aseem

[Smasharoo 0]

Wheel's never the nuts here and very rarely wins the high. You're counting too many outs.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I feel very strongly that the all-in on the flop is the right play. The only thing (and I mean the ONLY POSSIBLE thing) I woulda done different on the first hand is maybe raise a little bit preflop. Position, suited A23... I'd have bumped it up to either .50 or .75 because you know everyone that limped would call. But, someone did it for you, and for $1.40.On the flop, you have a stout pot sized bet and a call in front of you... I absolutely think pushing is the right play. For two people in for $7.40 while you're pushing over the top for 21.35... I really like that play.Because you're posting you probably lost, and if you lost, judging by the action, I'd assume the bettor had 67 for a flopped straight and the caller had a naked A2 for a nut low. Watch how favorable a situation this is!You definitely already have a quarter of the pot locked up. If an A or a 2 falls off you're quite likely good to counterfeit him and take the whole low side. Plus, you have 2 callers (odds) on a nut flush draw in an unpaired board.I ran a simulation based on my read (granted I was favorable with penalty cards that they could have had). This is to show the massive expected equity (EE) advantage you have. I did my best to simulate As Js 2c 3h vs. 67xx vs. A2xx on a 4h 5s 8s board (courtesy of cardplayer.com's omaha calculator).As Js 2h 3h (Hero) EE from flop: .4016d 7d Kc Qh (villian 1) EE from flop: .568Ah 2d Kd Qc (villian 2) EE from flop: .029Flop: 4h 5s 8sYou've got a 40% expected equity to win the pot vs. the straight with 57%. I think the straight is your most likely opponent for the action, fortunately giving him no redraw to beat your flush. Even if he had top set instead of a flopped straight (giving him a redraw if you hit your flush), this actually increases your expected equity to .458 vs. his barely an advantage of .479.The reason for that is even though he's got the boat redraw, now your wheel outs are live. Either way, if you put him on a straight, he has no redraw to beat your flush, and if you put him on a set, your 9 wheel outs become live (7 if the other guy in fact has A2).I bet my read is pretty accurate, and that's you against one of the worst possible scenarios getting 40% equity both times. At (21.35+21.35+21.35+7.4) to 21.35, you're getting better than 3:1 on your money and you'll get there much more often than you'll miss for the price you're getting. I like the all-in play when you had the odds to make it. If you missed it happens. If you're in that exact situation 1000 times and make the same move each time, you'll show a huge profit.

[monoatomic 0]

This was the result for the hand.smittymatt shows [ 7c, Ac, Ad, 6d ] a straight, five to nine.smittymatt shows 8,6,5,4,A for low.Monoatomic72 shows [ As, 3h, Js, 2h ] high card ace.Monoatomic72 shows 8,5,4,2,A for low.Allornuthing doesn't show [ 9s, Jh, 8h, 8c ] three of a kind, eights.Basically I won the low on both the main pot and one of the side pots.I posted the hand nto because I was quartered but mainly to see if a push in that situation was correct or not.My thinking behind the hand was as follows.I flopped the nut low and had a draw to the wheel as well as the nut flush. There was enough in the pot preflop that even if I quartered I wouldn't have lost that much money on the hand, I think around 6 bucks if someone else has A2xx. Post flop with a bet of $7.00 I also knew that regardless of what the turn came down in all likelyhood one of those two guys were going to bet the pot and put me all in anyways. From the betting I was almost certain one guy had 67xx which means that my flush could scoop. The other guy I wasn't quite sure about but figured it was probably a weak low with a flush or straight draw. I figured with my outs I would push first and hope I could scoop.

[Petoria 0]

Good hand. It turns out that your pot equity is 62.5%. At low limits, I think you can expect alot of results like this. The play on the flop was correct, when youve got the lead, you have to keep it.

[cdddc75 0]

This was the result for the hand.smittymatt shows [ 7c, Ac, Ad, 6d ] a straight, five to nine.smittymatt shows  8,6,5,4,A for low.Monoatomic72 shows [ As, 3h, Js, 2h ] high card ace.Monoatomic72 shows  8,5,4,2,A for low.Allornuthing doesn't show [ 9s, Jh, 8h, 8c ] three of a kind, eights.Basically I won the low on both the main pot and one of the side pots.I posted the hand nto because I was quartered but mainly to see if a push in that situation was correct or not.My thinking behind the hand was as follows.I flopped the nut low and had a draw to the wheel as well as the nut flush. There was enough in the pot preflop that even if I quartered I wouldn't have lost that much money on the hand, I think around 6 bucks if someone else has A2xx. Post flop with a bet of $7.00 I also knew that regardless of what the turn came down in all likelyhood one of those two guys were going to bet the pot and put me all in anyways. From the betting I was almost certain one guy had 67xx which means that my flush could scoop. The other guy I wasn't quite sure about but figured it was probably a weak low with a flush or straight draw. I figured with my outs I would push first and hope I could scoop.

That is precisely why pushing the flop was the correct play to me. If a third spade comes, the straight guy would drop the hand. With a guaranteed low and a nut flush draw, I want the chips in before another low gets counterfeited or the straight gets beaten.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm really surprised people can't see how the flop push is -EV play.I guess that's why I make so much money at PLO8./shrug.

[shortypoke 0]

I can see why he's counting too many outs there, but could you explain why this is a -EV play to push on that flop? I must need some help on the math here...