36 replies to this topic

[Roberts2003]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($423)Button ($555.80)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J. Button raises to $22, Hero raises to $84, Button calls $60.Flop: ($166) T, Q, K (2 players)Hero bets $140, Button calls $140.Turn: ($446) Q (2 players)Hero bets $203 (All-In), Button calls $203.River: ($852) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $852

[Roberts2003]

Roberts2003, on Sunday, April 15th, 2007, 4:53 PM, said:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($423)Button ($555.80)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J. Button raises to $22, Hero raises to $84, Button calls $60.Flop: ($166) T, Q, K (2 players)Hero bets $140, Button calls $140.Turn: ($446) Q (2 players)Hero bets $203 (All-In), Button calls $203.River: ($852) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $852

i am really puzzled by this hand, particularly on what acton i should take on the turn. feedback is appreciated.

[simo_8ball]

Reads?

[Roberts2003]

simo_8ball, on Sunday, April 15th, 2007, 5:01 PM, said:

Reads?

hes played pretty passive loose bad. i defintely do not put him on a boat when i push turn, best he has is a luckbox AQ hand.

[NEtwowilldo]

CRAI on the flop maybe

[Roberts2003]

NEtwowilldo, on Sunday, April 15th, 2007, 5:19 PM, said:

CRAI on the flop maybe

yeah looking back, that looks to be the best option

[Garn]

I find it hard to believe that you are ahead here. someone calling your initial reraise will likely have a piece of that flop. I lead towards a c/c or a c/f

[CobaltBlue]

Pretty ridiculous raise/call on his part pre-flop.Big problem with this hand is stack sizes. If we make a big c-bet like this on the flop, we're going to have a very wimpy turn bullet. I think I prefer bringing the bet sizes down throughout the hand...go to $66 pre-flop...that puts us at $132 on the flop. Then we can bet like $90. If that's called, we're left with $270 to bet/not bet into $310...which is much preferable to bet/not betting $200 into $450.If we make this big of a re-raise pre-flop, I hate it, but I think check/calling or check/raising the flop are going to be the best options. On the turn, I don't see any way that we're not beat...and I don't think we can fold him out. He's pretty much got to have AK/AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ/QJ/J9/KK/QQ/TT. The only unlikely hand that we "beat" and that should fold are JJ/JT.

[Acid_Knight]

If he's passive, I'm gonna make an argument for checking the flop and or the turn. We are like never leading with the preflop action and that board. Maybe we can see a free card or two if he is passive like you say, but I defintely don't think you should be getting your stack in there against anybody given that action preflop and the board you've got.

[Jordan]

i'm sorry.but el o el at all the responses of crai on the flop.The ONLY hand he has here we are ahead of is AT.And maybe some small pairs.If he has small pair, crai is also horrible for obvious reasons.Here is how you play the hand on the flop.Check. He will usually check. If he bets, you fold. That simple.Now, I have absolutely no read on opp..but anytime you put that many bb into the pot pf he'll usually have a big ace, KQ, TT+ type hands. I suppose, he could have 22-99 here as well..but if that is the case I promise you he is going to check it down as fast as possible.If the guy bets this flop you just have to give up, unless you want to gamble with "8" outs to the dirty nuts, or whatever. For those of you that think crai is a good play..why? You think he is betting 99 here (and if so we shoud c/c him down letting him try to bluff us)? You think he will fold any pair + str8 draw combo, any pair + fd combo, after he bets and we shove into an already bloated pot?The ideal thing here is to get to a showdown, yea it sux cuz we are hu..but seriously...IF it goes check/check on both the flop and turn I may "value bet" on the river tryign to get a smaller pp to pay me off, but I really think the best line on the river is to check/call most bets to pick off desperation bluffs. Otherwise, I just dump on the flop...sparing a read that he is not a total nut...but sometimes you have to give even nuts a little credit.- Jordanedit, let me also add I think the turn shove is pretty bad spewage (plz dont get your panties in a bunch, I've done it too).oh, double edit, I sometimes will lead this pot for like $100 or so, but I do it only if I'm feeling like a pansy just check/folding (thus not that great of a play)...In this case though I think hero flop bet is to big in % of the pot.

[Jordan]

did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- Jordan

[mtdesmoines]

Roberts2003, on Sunday, April 15th, 2007, 4:53 PM, said:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($423)Button ($555.80)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J. Button raises to $22, Hero raises to $84, Button calls $60.Flop: ($166) T, Q, K (2 players)Hero bets $140, Button calls $140.Turn: ($446) Q (2 players)Hero bets $203 (All-In), Button calls $203.River: ($852) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $852

I don't like it. Not even heads up.

[Zach6668]

Jordan, on Monday, April 16th, 2007, 7:08 PM, said:

did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- Jordan

It was too long.

[irishguy]

Jordan, on Monday, April 16th, 2007, 3:08 PM, said:

did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- Jordan

I think you hit it perfectly

[Jordan]

Zach6668, on Monday, April 16th, 2007, 3:16 PM, said:

It was too long.

noob. go back to lolminbetaments.- Jordan

[Roberts2003]

irishguy, on Monday, April 16th, 2007, 3:21 PM, said:

I think you hit it perfectly

yeah i agree as well jordan, mostly about the turn bet being spewage, as well as my flop bet being too big. if the action was rewinded back to the turn after i already made the big flop bet, whats peoples actions? this is probably a leak of mine, but i remember at the time hating the idea of check folding since i had already put so much in.

[Royal_Tour]

Jordan, on Monday, April 16th, 2007, 4:08 PM, said:

did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- Jordan

LOl. i was scared for a moment, i always thought i was a pretty aggressive player in HU, but i would have never invested that much on that flop/turn.I'm glad a voice of reason shined through

[CobaltBlue]

Jordan, on Monday, April 16th, 2007, 1:32 PM, said:

but el o el at all the responses of crai on the flop.The ONLY hand he has here we are ahead of is AT.And maybe some small pairs.If he has small pair, crai is also horrible for obvious reasons.

Eh...crai certainly isn't one of my favorite options, but to suggest that it won't fold some hands that beat us is odd...and the pot's so big that we wouldn't mind smacking him if he had decided to bet a small pair for some reason. If he does call and have us beat, we're not typically drawing dead.My first suggestion is still to bring the bet sizes down. That gives us far more flexibility with the hand.

[Acid_Knight]

Another important consideration: Never push your stack in when it's a legit possibilitiy that you'll be drawing dead.

[Roberts2003]

Acid_Knight, on Tuesday, April 17th, 2007, 6:12 AM, said:

Another important consideration: Never push your stack in when it's a legit possibilitiy that you'll be drawing dead.

thats like 1 of 3000 cliche poker sayings. another one is, "never draw to that sucker straight!!" a third one is, "watch out for the limper!!"