Flush On The River

[trystero 0]

Villain is 32/10/2 over 86 handsI'm sitting with $27.65Villain has $11.50BB $8.20$10 NL 6-max*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Hero [8 T ]UTG foldsVillain calls $0.10Hero calls $0.10SB calls $0.05BB checks*** FLOP *** [5 6 J ]SB checksBB bets $0.30Villain calls $0.30Hero calls $0.30SB folds*** TURN *** [5 6 J ] [4 ]BB bets $0.70Villain calls $0.70Hero calls $0.70*** RIVER *** [5 6 J ] [4 ] [K ]BB checksVillain bets $3.40Hero?Villain has $7 behind

[linkwood 0]

Villain is 32/10/2 over 86 handsI'm sitting with $27.65Villain has $11.50BB $8.20$10 NL 6-max*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Hero [8 T ]UTG foldsVillain calls $0.10Hero calls $0.10SB calls $0.05BB checks*** FLOP *** [5 6 J ]SB checksBB bets $0.30Villain calls $0.30Hero calls $0.30SB folds*** TURN *** [5 6 J ] [4 ]BB bets $0.70Villain calls $0.70Hero calls $0.70*** RIVER *** [5 6 J ] [4 ] [K ]BB checksVillain bets $3.40Hero?Villain has $7 behind

This looks an awful lot like a flush most of the time. If it is a flush, yours is a little better than average for a flush, although some of those become less likely. In some rare, donktastic cases it could be 78 or a weird set, but that is unlikely. I just call the river here. But i've just come out of a session of coolers, so I'm a little gun shy.EDIT: Another point to consider is if the villian would raise with big combo draws, such as 4d-3d, 7d-9d, etc, and also the nut flush draw, or qd-jd. If so you can narrow down his holding a bit and perhaps throw in a value raise if you had a good read.

[dms26 3]

I just call, he really seems to like this card. But we're also only losing to suited A's and Q's. I think a suited J would have been a little more active in the hand. We may also get BB to come along and add some value when we are ahead.

[simo_8ball 1]

(strikethrough those which are unlikely to have limped preflop)Flushes we beat:3242, 43,72, 73, 7492, 93, 94, 97= 4Flushes that beat us:J2, J3, J4, J7, J9Q2, Q3, Q4, Q7, Q9, QJA2, A3, A4, A7, A9, AJ, AQ= 9If we discount a little for him aometimes raising the aces preflop (although counterbalancing this is the chance of him folding 32s or 74s preflop) we can drop the number to about 7.Working purely on these figures, it appears calling the river is clearly better. Now, he could be bluffing, he could have a set, he could have a straight, etc. but he won't pay us off if he has a bluff, and he may not pay us off with a set or a straight.I think I call.

[Sefaje 0]

trystero, why are you playing NL10? just curious

[SuperJon 175]

You played the hand too passively, IMO. At some point on the flop or the turn, you need to throw in a raise to try and take down the pot. Remember, that unless you hit a 7 (for a straight) or a diamond on the river, 10 high is probably not good enough to win the pot at showdown. I would also doubt that a river bluff would work here if you missed your hand.As played though, you're most likely beat. I say call, and then laugh when villain turns over J7 of diamonds and rakes the pot.

[Zach6668 513]

You played the hand too passively, IMO. At some point on the flop or the turn, you need to throw in a raise to try and take down the pot. Remember, that unless you hit a 7 (for a straight) or a diamond on the river, 10 high is probably not good enough to win the pot at showdown. I would also doubt that a river bluff would work here if you missed your hand.

Why do people think that you have to win every pot you enter?

[pokerinc 0]

at .5/.10 w/ 2 other people in the pot, re raising the turn or putting in another bet is a huge leak. Drawing w/ correct odds works better.as played it's a call for me.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

He could have K J.I really don't think he line looks like a flush, though everyone else seems to.I push.

[simo_8ball 1]

He could have K J.I really don't think he line looks like a flush, though everyone else seems to.I push.

I'm not convinced he has a flush either. Will he call a shove with 2 pair though? I think it's unlikely.

[SuperJon 175]

Why do people think that you have to win every pot you enter?

I don't think I have to win every pot I enter, I was simply giving advice towards the OP who seemed to want to win the pot by calling both the flop and turn bets. You don't stay in a hand after your opponents bet unless you want to win the hand.

[Zach6668 513]

I don't think I have to win every pot I enter, I was simply giving advice towards the OP who seemed to want to win the pot by calling both the flop and turn bets. You don't stay in a hand after your opponents bet unless you want to win the hand.

It's not about winning hands. It's not about winning pots.It's about maximizing your expected value, with each decision you make.Raising on the turn, and probably the flop as well, is generally a major spew. What do you do when you get called and miss the river? Seriously.

[dms26 3]

You played the hand too passively, IMO. At some point on the flop or the turn, you need to throw in a raise to try and take down the pot. Remember, that unless you hit a 7 (for a straight) or a diamond on the river, 10 high is probably not good enough to win the pot at showdown. I would also doubt that a river bluff would work here if you missed your hand.

there are spots to get aggressive with a flush draw, I don't see this as one of them. Raising the flop gives someone the chance with a strong hand to shove on you, giving you pretty bad odds to draw. Raising the turn commits you to the hand with only one card to come. So why are we raising here, what makes you think a raise is going to take down the pot? In position with just a flush draw I think the passive route is the way to go.Bloating the pot every time you have a flush draw is definately spewing.

[trystero 0]

trystero, why are you playing NL10? just curious

I don't have much money online. If I get back into poker it'll be $100 NL at the least, where the stakes amount to something substantial, but right now I'm kinda struggling to make ends meet so I'm not about to deposit a couple thousand. as for this hand - I shoved right into the nuts. What went through my mind as I contemplated the river was a hand from HSP involving Booth and Negreanu. They both made flushes on the river, Daniel with 45c (I think) and Booth with 86c. Daniel donkbet about the pot into Booth who decided to just flat call, figuring that a raise folds those few flushes he is beating as well as straights. I'm really not sure why I shoved after thinking that. I guess I convinced myself that at these stakes I'd get paid off by far worse hands. But I had no read on the villain that he'd do that, and his action indicated that he had a flush (after all, he bet the river not only into the aggressor but into me, who had been calling as well). Given this I think calling the river is optimal. I'd even go so far as to say that raising this river, given the situation, is a flat out terrible play.

[trystero 0]

I don't think I have to win every pot I enter, I was simply giving advice towards the OP who seemed to want to win the pot by calling both the flop and turn bets. You don't stay in a hand after your opponents bet unless you want to win the hand.

Yeah, I want to win the hand, and I want to do it by hitting a straight or a flush. Two players here like what they see. I'm not going to push them off their hands by raising the flop or the turn. If I whiff the river then I just fold. There's no crime in folding, you know.Not all flush draws are created equally - mine kinda sucks, actually, because it's far from the nuts and has no combo draw on the flop. I pick up a gutshot on the turn but then I've only got one card to improve. I've got no overcards, either. What I know on the flop is that I've got 9 outs to what's not the nuts. Why am I raising there in position when I can draw cheaply? If I get 3bet then I'm putting money in the pot when I'm significantly behind. With two overs, I probably raise - but then with two overs I'm raising preflop OTB every single time, so the whole hand plays out differently.