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Ak Getting Squeezed


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#1 RISEorFall

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:30 PM

FT 12K GT, just after 3rd breakabout 300 left, 72 payjust moved to the table not long before the last break, so no reads. table was pretty tight the few hands before the breakI have about 3500 which is around the average stackUTG1 has less than me, about 2800 SB has about 6Kblinds 60/120RISE is utg with AKopf: RISE raises to 360, UTG1 calls, folds to SB, SB raises all-in, RISE....
Rise,

I like the whole hand. You should play drunk more often. :)
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#2 DoinSublime

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:43 PM

Personally I don't like going broke with AK in a multiway pot as there is too big a risk of some of my outs being gone. UTG1 could have an underpair, but just as easy could have AQ-AJs-A10s-KQs. BB could have 99-QQ, but just as easy could have AQs. I fold and find a better spot.
QUOTE(Acid_Knight @ Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008, 2:10 AM) View Post
That's why I just blindly fling money into the pots until they fold.


#3 Zach6668

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:48 PM

I call because I <3 AK.I also have no edge in tournies, so I take coinflips, lol.I've contributed nothing.Carry on.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#4 NEtwowilldo

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:50 PM

AK is not a strong enough hand with to go broke preflop with at this point in the tournament in my opinion, especially with your stack.My motto is if I am going to play a big pot I'd better be damn sure that I have by far the best hand, and that is not the case here.I would fold, and wait for aces or kings until this guy does it again.
Lol Donkaments

Jeff Madsen doesn't eat his food, he just re-raises it until the nutrients fold into his stomach.

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#5 GrinderMJ

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:08 PM

Disagree, I call.

#6 DoinSublime

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:30 PM

View PostGrinderMJ, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 3:08 AM, said:

Disagree, I call.
Assuming you know for certain UTG1 has AQ and will fold, and that SB has 99. You still call?
QUOTE(Acid_Knight @ Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008, 2:10 AM) View Post
That's why I just blindly fling money into the pots until they fold.


#7 SlackerInc

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 02:29 AM

View PostDoinSublime, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 1:30 AM, said:

Assuming you know for certain UTG1 has AQ and will fold, and that SB has 99. You still call?
You weren't asking me, but I would still call--although I obviously don't relish it. But it could just as easily be that UTG1 has 77 and will fold, and SB has AQ (or even AK which I don't mind). I definitely call here.

#8 NEtwowilldo

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 10:34 AM

The small blind could easily have a pocket pair here. If that is the case why would you want to put your tournament life on a coinflip? It could be even worse than that if the other guy folds some of your outs. You have an average stack, there's no point in gambling like this when we can see some flops and wait til we know how far ahead we are. Calling here is a silly and unneccessary gamble.
Lol Donkaments

Jeff Madsen doesn't eat his food, he just re-raises it until the nutrients fold into his stomach.

See What I've Been Up To

#9 GrinderMJ

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 12:27 PM

View PostNEtwowilldo, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 11:34 PM, said:

The small blind could easily have a pocket pair here. If that is the case why would you want to put your tournament life on a coinflip? It could be even worse than that if the other guy folds some of your outs. You have an average stack, there's no point in gambling like this when we can see some flops and wait til we know how far ahead we are. Calling here is a silly and unneccessary gamble.
You realize that if you could see that the sb had QQ, mathematically you have to call?

#10 Ouch-8s

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 12:47 PM

View PostGrinderMJ, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 1:27 PM, said:

You realize that if you could see that the sb had QQ, mathematically you have to call?
math is hard and I can see that./getting better at this stuff...
I'm retired.

#11 Balloon guy

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 01:08 PM

I can see why a call is the right play, 3rd level often times the bigger stacks are donkeys that got lucky a few times.If he is sitting on AA or KK then you are out in a resonable time, worse to play another 2 hours and bubble.Myself I would fold.
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#12 NEtwowilldo

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 01:58 PM

View PostGrinderMJ, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 4:27 PM, said:

You realize that if you could see that the sb had QQ, mathematically you have to call?
Poker is about more than just math, especially in tournament play. Personally I am confident enough in my post flop play that I don't take these almost even money situations, even when the pot odds demand a call. I feel that my edge against the extremely weak fields will give me a much better edge later on than the one in the given situation. If the hero feels the same way than he should fold.But hey if you like to gamble then go ahead and call. That's why you play poker in the first place, right?Some might feel that way but I would rather avoid this risk, and try to win more pots without showdown.
Lol Donkaments

Jeff Madsen doesn't eat his food, he just re-raises it until the nutrients fold into his stomach.

See What I've Been Up To

#13 simo_8ball

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 02:12 PM

View PostNEtwowilldo, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 10:58 PM, said:

Poker is about more than just math
I appreciate that what you mean is not what you say, but this comment annoys the hell out of me.

#14 GrinderMJ

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 02:58 PM

View PostNEtwowilldo, on Sunday, April 15th, 2007, 2:58 AM, said:

Poker is about more than just math, especially in tournament play. Personally I am confident enough in my post flop play that I don't take these almost even money situations, even when the pot odds demand a call. I feel that my edge against the extremely weak fields will give me a much better edge later on than the one in the given situation. If the hero feels the same way than he should fold.But hey if you like to gamble then go ahead and call. That's why you play poker in the first place, right?Some might feel that way but I would rather avoid this risk, and try to win more pots without showdown.
Hmmmm. You are probably over estimating your ability to play flops. Passing up big edges over and over again because "you play flops very well" is a very big leak. There are almost no structures in the online mtt world where you should be passing up reasonable edges because the structure allows you to see a ton of flops......

#15 NEtwowilldo

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:23 PM

View PostGrinderMJ, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 6:58 PM, said:

Passing up big edges over and over again
Please explain to me how we are positive that we have a big edge here. AK does not have a big edge over 99. It does have a big edge over AQ or A J, but until you can tell me how you are sure that that's what we are up against I stand by my decision.And idk about you, but I am positive that I have a better chance of stealing, valuebetting, and reading weakness after the flop than the vast majority of the field in a ten dollar donkament online. This is my style of playing tournaments, which has lead to me to some pretty respectable stats on the pokerdb on bluffmagazine.com (southrnctowl on stars if you wanna look me up) given the stakes I play online.
Lol Donkaments

Jeff Madsen doesn't eat his food, he just re-raises it until the nutrients fold into his stomach.

See What I've Been Up To

#16 NEtwowilldo

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:26 PM

View PostGrinderMJ, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 6:58 PM, said:

Hmmmm. You are probably over estimating your ability to play flops.
I don't think so.
Lol Donkaments

Jeff Madsen doesn't eat his food, he just re-raises it until the nutrients fold into his stomach.

See What I've Been Up To

#17 Zach6668

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:29 PM

View PostNEtwowilldo, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 7:23 PM, said:

Please explain to me how we are positive that we have a big edge here. AK does not have a big edge over 99. It does have a big edge over AQ or A J, but until you can tell me how you are sure that that's what we are up against I stand by my decision.
There is money in the pot. A coinflip is +EV.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#18 Zach6668

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:29 PM

View PostNEtwowilldo, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 7:23 PM, said:

Please explain to me how we are positive that we have a big edge here. AK does not have a big edge over 99. It does have a big edge over AQ or A J, but until you can tell me how you are sure that that's what we are up against I stand by my decision.
There is money in the pot. A coinflip is +EV.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#19 NEtwowilldo

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:32 PM

View PostZach6668, on Saturday, April 14th, 2007, 7:29 PM, said:

There is money in the pot. A coinflip is +EV.
I'm still strongly against putting an entire average stack in the middle preflop without a made hand. Totally not worth it when the SB has probably just gotten a big stack by getting lucky making plays like this up until this point. He's going to donk off his chips later when we have an ever more +EV opportunity. (Plus we don't even know if it is coinflip, he could have KK)You don't have to take every +EV opportunity if you can always take the ones where you have the biggest edge (like at least 70/30).If you continuously put all your money in the middle against a bigger stack preflop with a pair vs. two overs, you WILL go broke very quickly.
Lol Donkaments

Jeff Madsen doesn't eat his food, he just re-raises it until the nutrients fold into his stomach.

See What I've Been Up To

#20 Zach6668

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:40 PM

You really think you can wait for 70/30 edges?You understand that the best tournament players have advocated that THEY aren't good enough to pass up any edge they have... you know that, right?
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.




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