mtdesmoines 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Sat down about 20 minutes ago from a broken table. This new table is fairly loosey goosey. I have around $775. I straddle and I'm dealt two red tens. Six limpers to me in the straddle. I make it $30 to go. Folds around to one caller from SB.He's one of the loosey goosey players. There's what ... around $75 +/- in the pot now. Flop: 10c, 9c, 8sSB checks and I lead for $100. I have top set. My thinking is to give a bad price to this draw heavy board and build a pot for this good hand. SB calls. More information: frankly, it's difficult to tell where SB was preflop -- limping with a big PP and anticipating my raise would not at all be unexpected, as would middle to high connectors. $275 +/- potTurn: 6s. SB checks and I lead for $150. SB calls. Pot is huge now. River: Qc. SB checks. I've got $280 into this $600 pot and second set with the **** coordinated out of this board now, and around $500 behind. SB has around $300 left. What do I do and why do I do it? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Well, you have 2 choices of course.I think checking is the only play here. The flush got there. The top and bottom end of the OESD (J and 7) got there and you've got a set. Yeah, you might have the best hand, but what the hell can he call you with after that card falls? He could easily be checking a J or a less likely 7 to you on the river for fear that you made your flush.I think you played the pot very well and on the river you just have to check becuase every single draw imaginable got there and even if he had 2 pair or something already, he can't pay you off. Link to post Share on other sites
maxfallon 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Well, you have 2 choices of course.I think checking is the only play here. The flush got there. The top and bottom end of the OESD (J and 7) got there and you've got a set. Yeah, you might have the best hand, but what the hell can he call you with after that card falls? He could easily be checking a J or a less likely 7 to you on the river for fear that you made your flush.I think you played the pot very well and on the river you just have to check becuase every single draw imaginable got there and even if he had 2 pair or something already, he can't pay you off.i agree with acid knight....checking really is your only option. Unless you specifically put him on an overpair which depending on the player can be difficult. If you check you limit your loss and like he said....if he has 2 pair he will fold....only hand that will call you is a winning one. What did you end up doing? Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 1 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 What do I do and why do I do it?What do you do?You thank your lucky stars that you have position on him.Why?Because if you weren't in position this could would be really awkward, and possibly (probably) a check/fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 i agree with acid knight....checking really is your only option. Unless you specifically put him on an overpair which depending on the player can be difficult. If you check you limit your loss and like he said....if he has 2 pair he will fold....only hand that will call you is a winning one. What did you end up doing?I don't necessarily agree with this. I think you get called often by two pair in this scenario.That said, I still check behind. I've been working on getting value on rivers in thin situations, but I think this one is a little too dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I don't necessarily agree with this. I think you get called often by two pair in this scenario.I think the villain turns over Jx a lot here. He drew to his straight and didn't bet the river when the flush card came off.I think it's really really unlikely that you get called by 2 pair. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I think the villain turns over Jx a lot here. He drew to his straight and didn't bet the river when the flush card came off.I think it's really really unlikely that you get called by 2 pair.I must really be screwed up by the quality of players I play against. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 I don't necessarily agree with this. I think you get called often by two pair in this scenario.That said, I still check behind. I've been working on getting value on rivers in thin situations, but I think this one is a little too dangerous.OK, so I'm pretty sure that when he checks to me, he's got overs and just wants to roll them over and see where he's at. I bet another $100. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I must really be screwed up by the quality of players I play against.I think we might both play kind of LAGGY which might change the way villians play against us... or we just play with crackheads. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I think we might both play kind of LAGGY which might change the way villians play against us... or we just play with crackheads.LAGGY, how I miss you.I've been playing super-duper tight for a couple months now. It's painful. Of course, no one in my game has noticed. You've never seen someone get paid off so frequently with the nuts. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 LAGGY, how I miss you.I've been playing super-duper tight for a couple months now. It's painful. Of course, no one in my game has noticed. You've never seen someone get paid off so frequently with the nuts.making more money though?Edit: I really don't like opening the betting here. If he pushes are you going to call? If not just check. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Betting here is pure insanity. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I bet another $100.And you're calling a push if you're betting here? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 making more money though?Edit: I really don't like opening the betting here. If he pushes are you going to call? If not just check.Yes, making more money. Winning more consistently. Walking around with wads of cash like some sort of gangster.I really don't mind the value-bet with a strong read but like AK asked, are you calling a push here if he comes over the top? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 And you're calling a push if you're betting here?No. Absolutely not. If he pushes, I'm so far behind in the hand that it's not even funny and I've totally mis-read him. But the river check showed me total weakness. I don't think he likes the river any more than I do, maybe less. I'm just reminded about this hand because we talked in another thread about reads ... and I completely read weakness in his river check. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 No. Absolutely not. If he pushes, I'm so far behind in the hand that it's not even funny and I've totally mis-read him. But the river check showed me total weakness. I don't think he likes the river any more than I do, maybe less. I'm just reminded about this hand because we talked in another thread about reads ... and I completely read weakness in his river check.He could hate this river with a 7 in his hand, the J counterfeited him and the club draw made it. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 No. Absolutely not. If he pushes, I'm so far behind in the hand that it's not even funny and I've totally mis-read him. But the river check showed me total weakness. I don't think he likes the river any more than I do, maybe less. I'm just reminded about this hand because we talked in another thread about reads ... and I completely read weakness in his river check.If you're not calling a push, you're not allowed to bet. It's really simple.The pot is already quite large and you have a hand that used to be a monster and is now marginal at best, but is still likely to take down the pot. Reopening betting and possibly getting reraised is a huge mistake if you're going to fold and not go to showdown. Link to post Share on other sites
maxfallon 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 No. Absolutely not. If he pushes, I'm so far behind in the hand that it's not even funny and I've totally mis-read him. But the river check showed me total weakness. I don't think he likes the river any more than I do, maybe less. I'm just reminded about this hand because we talked in another thread about reads ... and I completely read weakness in his river check.it is a weak river check....but a low straight on that board despite being weak, might call a $100 bet....did he call? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 it is a weak river check....but a low straight on that board despite being weak, might call a $100 bet....did he call?Explain how this is a weak check on the river please. Every imaginable drawing hand is now beating the Hero. Why is checking here bad and what do you put the villain on that they will pay you off? Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 A key that you have to look at OP is the value of your river bet. You may likely be ahead, but what hand is going to call your bet on the river that you beat? It seems like almost nothing you are beating will call a river bet, maybe other sets? So if you bet and don't get called you win the pot that was out there anyways, that's not a bad thing. The reverse is that you bet and get C/R all in. You lose a big pot no matter what villain has and you don't get to showdown. The fact that I think you aren't getting villain to fold any hand that beats you and not getting him to call with any hand that you beat makes a river bet very poor. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I check it down, there aren't very many hands he should be calling with that you can beat. The pot is pretty big, I'd be happy with a free showdown. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 A key that you have to look at OP is the value of your river bet. You may likely be ahead, but what hand is going to call your bet on the river that you beat? It seems like almost nothing you are beating will call a river bet, maybe other sets? So if you bet and don't get called you win the pot that was out there anyways, that's not a bad thing. The reverse is that you bet and get C/R all in. You lose a big pot no matter what villain has and you don't get to showdown. The fact that I think you aren't getting villain to fold any hand that beats you and not getting him to call with any hand that you beat makes a river bet very poor.Villain went into the tank for five minutes. Does that mean we're good? Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 OK, so I'm pretty sure that when he checks to me, he's got overs and just wants to roll them over and see where he's at. I bet another $100.if you put him on overs what does this bet accomplish? Is he calling with just a Q? Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Villain went into the tank for five minutes. Does that mean we're good? not always, if he has a 7 he's got to hate the turn and river. But he still beats you. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 not always, if he has a 7 he's got to hate the turn and river. But he still beats you.Villain cuts off $100 three times then re-stacks it. Holds his cards, ready to muck twice. Then turns away from the table and throws $100 into the pot and rolls over a red 7,8.In the end, he says if I bet one chip more than $100, he would have dumped. ...What can I learn here? Link to post Share on other sites
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