57 replies to this topic

[shrimp4789]

Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50

MP4 - $19.62
Hero- $50.10
Button - $23.75
SB - $49.50
BB - $17.11
UTG - $11.50
UTG +1 - $108.61
MP1 - $46.18
Villian - $51.25
MP3 - $28.89

Hero has A K

3 fold
Villian calls $0.50
2 fold
Hero raises to $2
3 fold
Villian calls $2

Pot = $4.75

Flop J 3 4
Villian bets $4
Hero calls $4

Pot = $16.75

Turn J
Villian bets $10
Hero raises to $30
Villian raises to $45.25 (all-in)
Hero....?

Basically, from the time the guy lead out I didnt put him on a Jack. Because of this, I just smooth called the flop and planned to raise turn if no scary card came. The J i thought was perfect for me, and so I raised. His re-raise was almost immediate, which made me think maybe he has the J, however I am pot commited am i not?

[Zach6668]

Umm... anything but standard.

[donk4life]

How is this standard? More than likely you are drawing dead..... And you know this too, but you wanna call anyway?

How was the J a perfect card? The villain is obviously betting on jack, he's afraid of a flush draw, but you think that card was a good one for you?



I don't care if it only cost you another 2 bucks, you are beat, dump it

[krup24]

Fold or raise the flop, calling is atrocious. As played fold the turn.

[cMcMonkey]

Basically, from the time the guy lead out I didnt put him on a Jack. Because of this, I just smooth called the flop and planned to raise turn if no scary card came. The J i thought was perfect for me, and so I raised. His re-raise was almost immediate, which made me think maybe he has the J, however I am pot commited am i not?

Your read was wrong (or worse, he flopped a set and turned a boat), now fold and move on. You can't make a "pot committed" call when you're drawing dead, and Villain bluff re-raises <1% of the time here so the pot would need to be laying you ~100:1 to make a call even close.

[dms26]

Basically, from the time the guy lead out I didnt put him on a Jack. Because of this, I just smooth called the flop and planned to raise turn if no scary card came. The J i thought was perfect for me, and so I raised. His re-raise was almost immediate, which made me think maybe he has the J, however I am pot commited am i not?

If you don't put him on a J then pop it on the flop. Don't wait for the turn when you have to commit so much of your stack with a very weak hand.

You aren't pot committed, save the $15. You have to win about 1 in 6 to make this call correct, I don't think you're anywhere close to that in this situation.

[mtdesmoines]

Blinds are now $0.25/$0.50

MP4 - $19.62
Hero- $50.10
Button - $23.75
SB - $49.50
BB - $17.11
UTG - $11.50
UTG +1 - $108.61
MP1 - $46.18
Villian - $51.25
MP3 - $28.89

Hero has A K

3 fold
Villian calls $0.50
2 fold
Hero raises to $2
3 fold
Villian calls $2

Pot = $4.75

Flop J 3 4
Villian bets $4
Hero calls $4

Pot = $16.75

Turn J
Villian bets $10
Hero raises to $30
Villian raises to $45.25 (all-in)
Hero....?

Basically, from the time the guy lead out I didnt put him on a Jack. Because of this, I just smooth called the flop and planned to raise turn if no scary card came. The J i thought was perfect for me, and so I raised. His re-raise was almost immediate, which made me think maybe he has the J, however I am pot commited am i not?

Wow did you ever step in it.

No sense making a call drawing dead dead dead.

[Acid_Knight]

Sigh.

[mtdesmoines]

Sigh.

[Naismith]

He has 5c6c. Call.

By the way, putting your opponents on the only hands you can beat is a bad strategy.

[shrimp4789]

ok standard was the wrong term for this title, as i said, i didnt put him on a J, not at all...and I was right....he had ducks. My real debate with this hand, was to raise the flop, or call and raise turn, to make sure i make the most i can out of the hand. im a bit shocked at this raise mind you, esp considering his hand, so he either had an extremely good read on me or was a bit stupid.

Alot of people do say, follow your read and your gut when unsure........so I did, and i was right, just didnt get the correct cards this time..........

[Zach6668]

Alot of people do say, follow your read and your gut when unsure........so I did, and i was right, just didnt get the correct cards this time..........

I'm almost certain this is not a winning play in the long run.

[ramenandeggs]

putting someone on not havign top pair 1) doesn't mean he has nothing at all 2) doesn't mean you can get him off the hand 3) usually on a draw heavy board, air will not bet into you and a J will most definitely make a pot sized lead like he did 4) and you guys were just racing to outdonk each other.

whiskey tango foxtrot. over.

[mtdesmoines]

4) and you guys were just racing to outdonk each other.

That's what I hate about these hands.
This hand boiled down to ego and emotion.
Ego and emotion feed losing poker.
As it turns out, you couldn't have hoped for better in his hand.
any second pair on the board, or A or K ships you the donk pot.
But surely there are better spots.

[timwakefield]

Alot of people do say, follow your read and your gut when unsure........so I did, and i was right, just didnt get the correct cards this time..........

Fair enough, and I suppose if you could see his cards on the turn you're probably getting good odds to call the $15, but you could save yourself a buy in if you just cut your losses and folded to his lead on the turn. It's not like you made a good read and were way ahead and he sucked out. He is in fact way ahead of you, and apparently refuses to lay down deuces. Against a player like that, trying to bluff him out is the exact wrong strategy.

I would also fold the flop. If I have AK in position and my opponent leads out strong on an ugly board I'm folding.

[shrimp4789]

Fair enough, and I suppose if you could see his cards on the turn you're probably getting good odds to call the $15, but you could save yourself a buy in if you just cut your losses and folded to his lead on the turn. It's not like you made a good read and were way ahead and he sucked out. He is in fact way ahead of you, and apparently refuses to lay down deuces. Against a player like that, trying to bluff him out is the exact wrong strategy.
I would also fold the flop. If I have AK in position and my opponent leads out strong on an ugly board I'm folding.

agreed, however i didnt know this about villian til after the hand

[Acid_Knight]

Alot of people do say, follow your read and your gut when unsure........so I did, and i was right, just didnt get the correct cards this time..........

Let's get something straight because a lot of people seem to be having issues with this.

A read means that you have some information that leads you to believe that you know what your opponent has. It can be a betting pattern, the speed of a bet, the way the opponent puts chips into the pot or just a general familiarity with a particular person's style of play.

In order for it to be a "read" and not just a guess, you gotta be able to be really convincing when someone asks

"Why did you put them on that hand" or "What made you think they were weak."

I think too often people in here are making plays becuase they think they should make a play and then they just hope it will work. Then we get hands posted on here that don't make any sense and the Hero is trying to justify it by saying "I thought they were weak, blah blah blah" and everyone else in the forum is saying "why did you think they were weak, every move they made looked really strong" and the answer is usually that the Hero just wanted to make a play, so he arbitrarily assigned the villain a hand that he could beat and he made a move.

I guess what I'm saying is that you don't make moves becuase you think you need to make a move. You make a move because you can justify why you think your opponent has a weak hand and will fold.

I don't think this was one of those cases, hence my rant above.

[shrimp4789]

Let's get something straight because a lot of people seem to be having issues with this.

A read means that you have some information that leads you to believe that you know what your opponent has. It can be a betting pattern, the speed of a bet, the way the opponent puts chips into the pot or just a general familiarity with a particular person's style of play.

In order for it to be a "read" and not just a guess, you gotta be able to be really convincing when someone asks

"Why did you put them on that hand" or "What made you think they were weak."

I think too often people in here are making plays becuase they think they should make a play and then they just hope it will work. Then we get hands posted on here that don't make any sense and the Hero is trying to justify it by saying "i thought they were weak, blah blah blah" and everyone else in the forum is saying "why did you think they were weak, every move they made looked really strong" and the answer is usually that the Hero just wanted to make a play, so he arbitrarily assigned the villain a hand that he could beat and he made a move.

I guess what I'm saying is that you don't make moves becuase you think you need to make a move. You make a move because you can justify why you think your opponent has a weak hand and will fold.
I don't think this was one of those cases, hence my rant above.

I agree with that, and thats why I thought villian would fold to a raise with the 2nd Jack on the turn with me showing alot of strength. Im still a bit stunned villian didnt actually fold given the cards out there and what he actually had.......

[Acid_Knight]

I agree with that, and thats why I thought villian would fold to a raise with the 2nd Jack on the turn with me showing alot of strength. Im still a bit stunned villian didnt actually fold given the cards out there and what he actually had.......

Right, but why do you think that he doesn't have a jack. He called a preflop raise, led the flop and led the turn. HE is the one representing the J. If you don't think he has a J, why don't you think he has it? His play certainly says that he has it.

I understand that your play was supposed to convey strength, but the idea is to prey on the weakness in other people. My point here is that it seems like you didn't put him on a J becuase you had AK and you and you wanted to make a play at him so that he'd lay down a better hand than yours, not because his play dictated that he didn't have a J. You see what I'm getting at?

Unless you have reasons to believe that this player doesn't hold the Jack there, then you don't make this play. You had said that you didn't know much about the villain, so I find it unlikely that you were familiar enough with his play to know what kinds of hands he makes this play with and therefore you guessed and put your whole stack at risk on a guess.

[simo_8ball]

Let's get something straight because a lot of people seem to be having issues with this.

A read means that you have some information that leads you to believe that you know what your opponent has. It can be a betting pattern, the speed of a bet, the way the opponent puts chips into the pot or just a general familiarity with a particular person's style of play.

In order for it to be a "read" and not just a guess, you gotta be able to be really convincing when someone asks

"Why did you put them on that hand" or "What made you think they were weak."

I think too often people in here are making plays becuase they think they should make a play and then they just hope it will work. Then we get hands posted on here that don't make any sense and the Hero is trying to justify it by saying "i thought they were weak, blah blah blah" and everyone else in the forum is saying "why did you think they were weak, every move they made looked really strong" and the answer is usually that the Hero just wanted to make a play, so he arbitrarily assigned the villain a hand that he could beat and he made a move.

I guess what I'm saying is that you don't make moves becuase you think you need to make a move. You make a move because you can justify why you think your opponent has a weak hand and will fold.

I don't think this was one of those cases, hence my rant above.

Right, but why do you think that he doesn't have a jack. He called a preflop raise, led the flop and led the turn. HE is the one representing the J. If you don't think he has a J, why don't you think he has it? His play certainly says that he has it.

I understand that your play was supposed to convey strength, but the idea is to pray on the weakness in other people. My point here is that it seems like you didn't put him on a J becuase you had AK and you and you wanted to make a play at him so that he'd lay down a better hand than yours, not because his play dictated that he didn't have a J. You see what I'm getting at?

Unless you have reasons to believe that this player doesn't hold the Jack there, then you dont' make this play. You had said that you didn't know much about the villain, so I find it unlikely that you were familiar enough with his play to know what kinds of hands he makes this play with and therefore you guessed and put your whole stack at risk on a guess.

I was going to say good posts, but then I noticed the typos. Speak English next time moron.

I'm busting chops today. You can ask anyone.