19 replies to this topic

[VernonME]

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($131.30)
Hero ($20.20)
SB ($32.20)
BB ($36.25)
UTG ($58.05)
UTG+1 ($47.10)
MP1 ($19.25)
MP2 ($29.25)
MP3 ($14.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 raises to $1.5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($7.25) A, 7, A (2 players)
MP2 bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($11.25) 9 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($11.25) 5 (2 players)
MP2 bets $6.5

Final Pot: $24.25

Call or fold on river?

[mtdesmoines]

You should have ditched at the flop.

[linkwood]

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($131.30)
Hero ($20.20)
SB ($32.20)
BB ($36.25)
UTG ($58.05)
UTG+1 ($47.10)
MP1 ($19.25)
MP2 ($29.25)
MP3 ($14.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 raises to $1.5, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($7.25) A, 7, A (2 players)
MP2 bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($11.25) 9 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($11.25) 5 (2 players)
MP2 bets $6.5

Final Pot: $24.25

Call or fold on river?

any reads on villian?

to be honest this smells like 77 (EDIT: or we're ahead) to me. getting 3-1 on the river though, without a read, i might have to pay this off, mostly just because of curiousity.

[Naismith]

Does villain bet out flopped trips often?

Default: I call and expect to have the best hand.

[Acid_Knight]

Default: I call and expect to have the best hand.

Reraise more preflop.
I might bet the turn and check behind on the river, but your line is good. I expect to have the best hand a significant portion of the time here.

[cMcMonkey]

Reraise more preflop.
I might bet the turn and check behind on the river, but your line is good. I expect to have the best hand a significant portion of the time here.

I like this much better b/c you can fold with pretty high confidence that you're beat on the river if he bets, or re-raises on the turn. If he's tricky and might re-raise with a flush draw or represent the A, you might need to call a re-raise on the turn, but if you bet at the turn and he leads the river you can get away from it. If you're gonna call the river anyway, might as well bet the turn to either get some value or keep some silly JTd or 55 type of hand that just c-bet the flop from getting a free draw to beat you. I think you have the best hand here a lot of the time, and taking the lead makes it less likely you'll be given a tough decision on the river, as any raise is >90% gonna be an A or the boat.

[Acid_Knight]

The 2 lines, post flop are:

Call flop, bet turn, check river

or

Call flop, check turn, call river.

I usually opt for the 2nd one because I'm libel to put in the same number of chips each way, but the 2nd option allows the villain to bluff at me more often whereas the first one kind of requires that he has some kind of hand.

[NEtwowilldo]

I have added in what is going through the villain's brain on each street.

Flop: ($7.25) A, 7, A (2 players)Hmm, I whiffed this flop, I'll take a stab at it though, but I don't want to put too much at risk, $2 seems safe, I'll probably have to fold if I get raised.

MP2 bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($11.25) 9 (2 players)Huh, looks like he's got something, maybe slowplaying an ace on me, I'd better slow down since I'm probably drawing dead.

MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($11.25) 5 (2 players)Look at that he checked the turn, maybe he is weak after all, I guess I'll take another shot for 6 bucks.

MP2 bets $6.5

Final Pot: $24.25

Call or fold on river?

You called the bet on the flop thinking you might still have the best hand so why not do it again?

I say call.

[cMcMonkey]

The 2 lines, post flop are:

Call flop, bet turn, check river

or

Call flop, check turn, call river.

I usually opt for the 2nd one because I'm libel to put in the same number of chips each way, but the 2nd option allows the villain to bluff at me more often whereas the first one kind of requires that he has some kind of hand.

When you say usually, do you mean usually in this situation, or usually as in that's your default?

The two lines look good and it seems to me that #1 is tailor made for passive and #2 for aggressive opponents. In this case with no read, on the flop its a pretty weak bet, so I would default to #1 to make sure some money gets in the pot. If he folds, then fine, but its better, imo, than checking behind and giving a free draw. His weak flop bet and check turn is looking to fold, unless he's trapping, so why give a free chance to catch a perfect card? If he's trapping and pops us back, then fine b/c we've only put in as much as we would have called on the river, so we're not risking any more than a c/c. If we knew he was more aggressive then I could see checking behind to induce a bluff, but with a passive opponent like this seems to be I think its more likely he's c/f'ing the river anyway unless the perfect card comes off.

[Acid_Knight]

When you say usually, do you mean usually in this situation, or usually as in that's your default?

Everything is situational. When I am in this situation, it's usually #2.

Also, we're not afraid of giving a card to a draw. Unless he has a weird straight draw (weird in a sense that he bet the flop with it) or a diamond draw, he's got 2 outs, if he's drawing live. He can have all of the free cards that he wants here. He's either got 2 outs, or we do.

[Ouch-8s]

I'd raise more PF ($4-$5) and raise his flop bet, personally.

[Acid_Knight]

I'd raise more PF ($4-$5) and raise his flop bet, personally.

Can I ask why do you want to raise the flop bet?

[Naismith]

Can I ask why do you want to raise the flop bet?

[Ouch-8s]

Actually I notice now hero and villian are a little short so maybe not. But as played PF, villian only called hero's raise PF, so I'm not expecting him to have a great ace. There's a shot he'll fold a weak ace if you raise the flop, and if you don't you're probably going to see a river bet like this, and probably call. I'd rather bet $6 than call it. I fold to further resistance after I raise him.

I suppose I could be making a worse hand fold here but I'd rather win $9 from a worse (or better?) hand than lose $24 to a better one.

[cMcMonkey]

Everything is situational. When I am in this situation, it's usually #2.

Also, we're not afraid of giving a card to a draw. Unless he has a weird straight draw (weird in a sense that he bet the flop with it) or a diamond draw, he's got 2 outs, if he's drawing live. He can have all of the free cards that he wants here. He's either got 2 outs, or we do.

Good point. I'd still want there to be a reasonable chance he'll bet the river, but I didn't think about how few outs he's likely to have. So I agree most cases to check behind here, but if he's typical weak tight and won't ever bluff at this pot, then I prob bet the turn, even something small, to A) give him a chance to call and take away any free chance to hit his 2-outer for free.

[zimmer4141]

Raising the flop was the first thing I thought of.

If we raise here, it gives our hand much more definition. If Villain calls or reraises our flop raise, we can safely deposit in the muck and move on losing near the minimum. By calling, what if the blank hits the turn and he bets like $5? Where the hell are we now? If we call the flop we likely think we're ahead. Do we still think we're ahead? I just think calling the flop is a bad play without a concrete read on the villain.

[Zach6668]

Can I ask why do you want to raise the flop bet?

Because we prefer folding all of the hands that we beat, and we like to ensure that only hands that have us crushed call or reraise.

[krup24]

Reraise more preflop.
I might bet the turn and check behind on the river, but your line is good. I expect to have the best hand a significant portion of the time here.

QFT

The min reraise with KK on the button is disgusting but since you did it the best line is the one you took provided you called the river.

[David_Nicoson]

The best reason to raise this flop (and bet the turn) is to represent a big ace so as to make a weak ace fold. Since we're almost never going to show down a winner, we should make the same move with air.

I don't wish to define my actual hand to my opponent.

I think our hand does have some showdown value when we play passively. So I like the line as played just fine.

[petersun]

I think it's pretty standard call on the river. I have no problems with the hand as played. More often then not, you're facing another pair here.

I don't like the raise on the flop. I think the turn checks defines the hands as well as the flop reraise, but much cheaper. You have position so take advantage of that.

You're really trying to represent AK here if you reriase on the flop, and I guess you can do it if you feel you have a read that he's weak or he can be pushed off of AQ or AJ. I would frankly be more scared of a flop call then a raise here.