6 replies to this topic

[donk4life]

This was early in a 20 dollar MTT on AP.. No reads on the opponent, stacks sizes are about the same, each at 1600

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with
2 folds, MP1 calls t30 (pot was t45), MP2 calls t30 (pot was t75), MP3 calls t30 (pot was t105), 2 folds, SB calls t15 (pot was t135), Hero checks.

Flop: (t150, 5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets t30, MP2 raises to t120, 2 folds, Hero calls t120 (pot was t300), MP1 calls t90 (pot was t420).

Turn: (t510, 3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets t480.

Hero????


The only reason I checked the flop was too see what the others would do, this is a scary flop since everyone limped.. I'm afraid of King 10 or King 7 here...

This bet sure smells like King 10...

[copernicus]

I dont like the flop play. With a scary board but a solid hand OOP its usually better to lead. You control the size of a pot better by making reasonable but somewhat low bets than you do by giving up control to the rest of the table. In this hand a couple of checks and a donkey 30 tc bet gives MP2 a license to try and steal on the flop.

This is the point where you have to decide whether your two pair are good. It makes no sense to flat call here for 120, give MP1 good drawing odds and still not know where youre at. I would fold, not wanting to commit a lot of chips at this point, but thats largely read dependent. The turn card makes things a bit scarier and an easy fold.

I think this hand defines "calling station", especially if you called the turn. The strategic reasons for check/calling two streets here are very weak at best.

[donk4life]

The reason I didn't lead out was because it was such a scary board.. Bottom 2 with a bunch of limpers is not a good hand to have..

If I bet here more than likely MP1 would call and MP2 would raise, and then what? I push? I'm sorry but i'm not willing to risk my stack on bottom 2, especially with the agressiveness of MP2... Even if the two just flat call on the flop, and I bet the turn, and get raised all in what do I do? no way I can call here..

Yes, I played this extremely passively, but I think it saved me money..

[RickC1883]

Hero????
The only reason I checked the flop was too see what the others would do, this is a scary flop since everyone limped.. I'm afraid of King 10 or King 7 here...

This bet sure smells like King 10...

I would think it is not A-K, nor pocket 10's or K's because he did not raise pre flop. It could be K-10 but probably K-J or K-Q, could also be Pocket 7's. MP2 looks to be betting to push out a drawing hand and protect his top pair since both Hero and MP1 have been check-calling, indications of looking for a draw. I am still learning but this is how I would think it is going down.

I would have check-raised after MP2's raise on the flop maybe a pot sized raise or a little more to see where you were compared to MP1 and MP2. At this point MP1 could not call because he has seen his feeler bet raised and re-raised (squeeze play right?) and you will find out more information about what MP2 has. By check-raising you also change MP1's pot odds from 4.6-1( 90 into 420) to 2-1 (300 into 600) at this point he is making a mistake to call you unless he has a made hand and if he does already have a hand you don't have to put anymore $ in the pot.

Rick

[Zach6668]

The reason I didn't lead out was because it was such a scary board.. Bottom 2 with a bunch of limpers is not a good hand to have..

That's just weak-tight thinking.

You have a the best hand on this flop a very high percentage of the time. At the same time, it's very vulnerable. You need to bet this flop to both protect, and define your hand.

[copernicus]

The reason I didn't lead out was because it was such a scary board.. Bottom 2 with a bunch of limpers is not a good hand to have..

If I bet here more than likely MP1 would call and MP2 would raise, and then what? I push? I'm sorry but i'm not willing to risk my stack on bottom 2, especially with the agressiveness of MP2... Even if the two just flat call on the flop, and I bet the turn, and get raised all in what do I do? no way I can call here..

Yes, I played this extremely passively, but I think it saved me money..

I dont think it saved you anything if you were behind, and may have cost you the pot if you were ahead.

Lead the flop for 100 and you either get raised and fold (saving you an admittedly meaningless 20), or you get called and know youre up against a reasonable hand instead of just an attempt to buy the pot, and when you check the turn may have bought yourself a free card and information that villain is a lot weaker than his potential steal attempt would lead you to believe.

As a general rule, OOP its usually cheaper to lead on a later street, and even cheaper than that to raise on an earlier street, than it is to check/call on that later street, and you get the benefit of more information and/or a free card.

[NEtwowilldo]

Yes a probe bet is definitely necessary on the flop.