Ivey Vs Booth On Hsp

[Acid_Knight 2]

For people who haven't seen the hand, here is the link.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8_gO1_Njg Basically, with blinds at 300/600 and a 100 ante, the following action happens.David Williams opens wtih J9o to $1800Brad Booth (with 1 million behind) reraises to $5800 in the CO with 4 2 From the SB, Phil Ivey (~$300,000 behind) comes over the top for $14000 total with K K Booth callsThe flop comes down 3 7 6 Ivey bets out $23000, Booth asks how much he has left and then puts out 3 bricks of $100,000 each, which is enough to put Ivey all in. Ivey thinks for a few minutes and mucks.What do we think?

[mtdesmoines 2]

For people who haven't seen the hand, here is the link.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8_gO1_Njg Basically, with blinds at 300/600 and a 100 ante, the following action happens.David Williams opens wtih J9o to $1800Brad Booth (with 1 million behind) reraises to $5800 in the CO with 4 2 From the SB, Phil Ivey (~$300,000 behind) comes over the top for $14000 total with K K Booth callsThe flop comes down 3 7 6 Ivey bets out $23000, Booth asks how much he has left and then puts out 3 bricks of $100,000 each, which is enough to put Ivey all in. Ivey thinks for a few minutes and mucks.What do we think?

Sick sick sick but beautiful big stack poker move.Edit: with the nut low. Maybe Booth thought they were playing a Razz round. :-p

[simo_8ball 1]

Don't post results. I quite like Booth's play all round, but I'm (overly) LAG when deepstacked.I don't think Ivey raises enough preflop. I think he needs to make it at least $18k preflop. The flop is difficult for Ivey and I think he made a reasonable fold.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think the more important question is what is Booth trying to represent. I mean, from his move, it looks like a draw. On the other hand, he's pushing in like 400+ BBs that Ivey has to call with one pair, which can't be easy, especially when a BB is $600. It's interesting and I wonder if Ivey had played with Booth more, if he might call the bet becuase many other players at the table kind of hinted that they would call.

[simo_8ball 1]

Booth's play looks exactly like an overplayed draw. The problem is that Ivey is either semi-dead to a set/straight/two pair, or he is 50/50 (with a small chance of being way ahead). It could be that he has played a lot with Booth and there is a lot of higher level thinking going on. The pot odds aren't fantastic and there is little Ivey is significantly ahead of.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Actually, I think one of the more interesting things about the hand is that the two have really never played together. Booth is primarily a high stakes NL holdem player and Ivey rarely plays in the big NL games and therefore has little to no experience ever playing with Booth.

[simo_8ball 1]

Fair point. I still think there is some deep thought involved in the play. Ivey has to recognise that his hand is fairly transparent by this point. He has re-reraised out of position against two players fairly new to the game, and fired out a large bet at the flop. Now, he could potentially be making a big move, but it is more likely that he has AA-QQ. He has to assess whether Yukon would really make a $300k move so early in the game against what is obviously a huge hand. Ivey has to assume that it is either a big draw (against which he is at best 55%) or a huge hand (where he is 0%), and the pot odds he is getting aren't great (about 3:2?).

[Acid_Knight 2]

Fair point. I still think there is some deep thought involved in the play. Ivey has to recognise that his hand is fairly transparent by this point. He has re-reraised out of position against two players fairly new to the game, and fired out a large bet at the flop. Now, he could potentially be making a big move, but it is more likely that he has AA-QQ. He has to assess whether Yukon would really make a $300k move so early in the game against what is obviously a huge hand. Ivey has to assume that it is either a big draw (against which he is at best 55%) or a huge hand (where he is 0%), and the pot odds he is getting aren't great (about 3:2?).

I think you just nailed what is the most interesting aspect of the hand. The announcers even pointed it out. Brad Booth pretty much knew exactly what Phil had and Phil had no idea where Brad was in the hand. Phil probably figured that Brad would never make that move with JJ or TT, which is probably true since the hand might actually be the best hand.So, you can go into all of the levels of thinking in the hand, since Booth knows what Ivey has, and Ivey knows that Booth knows, so Ivey can calculate the moves that Booth is capable of and whether he'd push that much with a draw, figuring Ivey'd lay down Kings, or if he's push with a set, figuring that Ivey couldn't lay down Aces.I think that's what makes it fun is that Booth knows what Ivey has. Ivey knows that Booth knows his hand as well and has now made a very weird play. Booth just correctly assumed that Ivey didn't want to play a $600,000 pot with one pair.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I think you just nailed what is the most interesting aspect of the hand. The announcers even pointed it out. Brad Booth pretty much knew exactly what Phil had and Phil had no idea where Brad was in the hand. Phil probably figured that Brad would never make that move with JJ or TT, which is probably true since the hand might actually be the best hand.So, you can go into all of the levels of thinking in the hand, since Booth knows what Ivey has, and Ivey knows that Booth knows, so Ivey can calculate the moves that Booth is capable of and whether he'd push that much with a draw, figuring Ivey'd lay down Kings, or if he's push with a set, figuring that Ivey couldn't lay down Aces.I think that's what makes it fun is that Booth knows what Ivey has. Ivey knows that Booth knows his hand as well and has now made a very weird play. Booth just correctly assumed that Ivey didn't want to play a $600,000 pot with one pair.

With the board coordinating, should Ivey have bet out harder after the flop?

[simo_8ball 1]

I think $23k is ok as a c/bet, but I really think he needs to make it more than $14k preflop out of position.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think $23k is ok as a c/bet, but I really think he needs to make it more than $14k preflop out of position.

I agree with both of these. If he made it 20K preflop, Booth would have likely folded. Also, on the flop, he bet 23K into a pot of roughly 30K. Considering that the cards were all small (yes, they were connected and suited too) and that Booth had reraised preflop and then called a 3rd bet, I'd assume that the $23,000 would be a fairly profitable bet since Booth could definitely call with worse hands.

[Sefaje 0]

yea you guys covered it.brad booth made me cum watching that play

[mtdesmoines 2]

I agree with both of these. If he made it 20K preflop, Booth would have likely folded. Also, on the flop, he bet 23K into a pot of roughly 30K. Considering that the cards were all small (yes, they were connected and suited too) and that Booth had reraised preflop and then called a 3rd bet, I'd assume that the $23,000 would be a fairly profitable bet since Booth could definitely call with worse hands.

I wonder if what happened to Ivey was that he was going to represent weak and then raise Booth's flop raise. When Booth struck first, he stole the initiative from Ivey and took the pot.

[simo_8ball 1]

It's difficult to represent weakness after putting in the third raise preflop. Many players won't do that with AK. With his $23k flop lead I don't think he is looking for a lot of action.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I wonder if what happened to Ivey was that he was going to represent weak and then raise Booth's flop raise. When Booth struck first, he stole the initiative from Ivey and took the pot.

You mean make a weak looking bet, hoping Booth would raise so that he could reeraise?I love that move, but his bet on the flop was far too big to accomplish that. Ivey's hand was not well disguised here and he knew it.

[mtdesmoines 2]

You mean make a weak looking bet, hoping Booth would raise so that he could reeraise?I love that move, but his bet on the flop was far too big to accomplish that. Ivey's hand was not well disguised here and he knew it.

The thing I can't get is ... what do you suppose Ivey put Booth on that he couldn't call this all in?

[Acid_Knight 2]

The thing I can't get is ... what do you suppose Ivey put Booth on that he couldn't call this all in?

It's probably a combination of things. The fact that Booth knows exactly where Ivey is in the hand and is pushing has to make it VERY tough for Phil becuase he knows that Booth could be putting him to a real test with a set or 2 pair or even AA, which is probably his biggest fear. If he doesn't have one of those hands, he could easily have a huge draw where Phil is basically flipping a coin for a quarter million dollars.The reason that he probably doesn't call is that unless Booth is making a $300,000 bluff (which given preflop action, seems unlikely) then Ivey is either a coinflip or has 2 outs. Or he could have the nut low. He probably discounts Booth doing this with semi strong hands like JJ, TT, and QQ that could be winning the hand.

[mtdesmoines 2]

It's probably a combination of things. The fact that Booth knows exactly where Ivey is in the hand and is pushing has to make it VERY tough for Phil becuase he knows that Booth could be putting him to a real test with a set or 2 pair or even AA, which is probably his biggest fear. If he doesn't have one of those hands, he could easily have a huge draw where Phil is basically flipping a coin for a quarter million dollars.The reason that he probably doesn't call is that unless Booth is making a $300,000 bluff (which given preflop action, seems unlikely) then Ivey is either a coinflip or has 2 outs. Or he could have the nut low. He probably discounts Booth doing this with semi strong hands like JJ, TT, and QQ that could be winning the hand.

I think he just eventually decided he was lost in the hand and bailed on it, waiting for a better spot.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think he just eventually decided he was lost in the hand and bailed on it, waiting for a better spot.

Agreed. What else can you do though. You know that you're basically playing with your hand face up. Do you wanna put in a quarter of a million dollars guessing that the guy is making a play at you becuase he knows what you have? I don't.

[linkwood 0]

i'm really glad you guys brought up this hand because i agree, the play was amazing. all the he knows that he knows that he knows crap is making my head spin. the flop was perfect for booth because he could represent so much. great play...

[mtdesmoines 2]

i'm really glad you guys brought up this hand because i agree, the play was amazing. all the he knows that he knows that he knows crap is making my head spin. the flop was perfect for booth because he could represent so much. great play...

It's not like he missed the flop entirely.

[linkwood 0]

It's not like he missed the flop entirely.

yeah, having the gutter ball and backdoor spades helped, but i think having a flop that contained a lot of draws was just what he was looking for. there was so much to represent there that it made it extremely difficult for ivey to put him on one holding, whereas ivey knew that booth likely had a good idea of his hand. here's a question, would booth make the same play if the flop comes 6 7 10 ? i'm not sure he would with total air, but i do think that if he did the results would probably be the same.

[No_Neck 0]

lalalalalalalala i haven't seen it yet. I AM NOT LISTENING

[mtdesmoines 2]

yeah, having the gutter ball and backdoor spades helped, but i think having a flop that contained a lot of draws was just what he was looking for. there was so much to represent there that it made it extremely difficult for ivey to put him on one holding, whereas ivey knew that booth likely had a good idea of his hand. here's a question, would booth make the same play if the flop comes 6 7 10 ? i'm not sure he would with total air, but i do think that if he did the results would probably be the same.

I think Booth needs a piece of it to push. I've never been an advocate of the totally naked bluff. Every time I've seen it tried, the perpetrator has eventually walked off, broke.

[linkwood 0]

I think Booth needs a piece of it to push. I've never been an advocate of the totally naked bluff. Every time I've seen it tried, the perpetrator has eventually walked off, broke.

yeah, i agree after thinking about it some more. its sort of like leaving an escape route, even though i think it would have worked in this case.