42 replies to this topic

[wrto4556]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converterPreflop: BadMotherFucker is MP1 with T:heart:, T:club:. UTG :#A500AF(TheMouse)/ raises, UTG :#A500AF(TheMouse)/ calls.Flop: (7.33 SB) 4:spade:, 9:spade:, 2:spade: (2 players)TheMouse checks, BadMotherFucker betscker calls.Turn: (5.66 BB) 3:diamond: (2 players)TheMouse bets, TheMouse calls.River: (9.66 BB) 6:heart: (2 players)TheMouse checks, BadMotherFucker betsyay or nay?

[custom36]

Nay. Looks like a non-nut flush.

[Vade]

I think its okay because he raised preflopThis means that it's less likely that he flopped the flushHe checkraised trying to represent it, but I would think that he would have three bet the turn if he'd had the flush...cause there was no reason not toAlso, there is a slight chance of an overpair, but again doubtfulNice bet

[wrto4556]

Vade, you think alot like me. He raised preflop (big cards) but did not cap (no big pair except JJ). If he has A Q (Or something like that...K Q ) I would be 3-bet on the turn. Mice don't raise J T and if they did, the 3-bet this turn.I think the real question is should I have 3-bet the flop? Or, was raising the turn too fancy? I have more equity on the turn if he has overcards and flush draw. On the flop it's about a coin flop, imo...but on the turn my chances go way up.

[Vade]

LolFunny thing is I don't even play that much limit yet (Just bought SSHE)I figured this one out based on reading all y'alls posts

[akishore]

man, wrto, i REALLY like your play.you played it perfect, IMHO.don't three-bet the flop. your equity can drastically change on the turn, so just call with the intention of raising a good turn card (remember the two overpair examples in SSHE?)also, by only calling the flop raise and raising the turn, you get more value than if you three-bet the flop, he calls, turn is a good card, and he check-calls you.perfect...aseem

[wrto4556]

Aseem,What turn cards don't I raise?

[Vade]

Raising with a 4th spade on the board wouldn't make any sense to me

[wrto4556]

Vade said:

Raising with a 4th spade on the board wouldn't make any sense to me

8) what else?A, K, and Q...what do I do if the Q falls....or the A ?

[Vade]

Since he checkraised the flop, there's a very good chance he has one of those cards...probably have to fold and find a better spotThe problem I see is that you've lost control of the hand

[akishore]

if you just call his flop check-raise, and he leads out on the turn, i would just check-call any spade or overcard to showdown.what i'm just thinking about is... would a mouse raise AJ? KQ? AQ? KJ? if not, then maybe jacks and queens aren't bad cards (non-spade of course). on the other hand, those cards could give him a set if he only raises big pairs. so yeah, i would just check-call any overcard or spade.is that too weak/tight?aseem

[akishore]

Vade said:

Since he checkraised the flop, there's a very good chance he has one of those cards...probably have to fold and find a better spotThe problem I see is that you've lost control of the hand

really? you would fold here? the pot is so big, i don't think you can afford to fold.since the mouse has control of the hand now, you can't assume that any turn bet means he's improved. if the A lands, he might still bet out with K Q or something since you only called his flop check-raise. similarly, if the Q lands, he might still bet out with A K .the thing is, i'm not totally sure about that either. does a mouse bet on bluffs after his opponent has shown weakness? if not, then maybe you CAN fold to a turn bet, but i really don't like folding in this large pot.i think the idea is that the turn can change your equity a lot, so you shouldn't get too aggressive before it, but if it's a good card, you get aggressive, and if it's a bad one, you just check-call to showdown since it only costs you at most two bets more (potentially winning an 8 BB pot).aseem

[wrto4556]

akishore said:

so yeah, i would just check-call any overcard or spade.is that too weak/tight?

I think that's loose. Any spade i'm folding to a bet. Any A or K I think i'm folding, too. The Q or J I will call down, and bet if checked to on the river.

vade said:

The problem I see is that you've lost control of the hand

I see that problem, too.

[akishore]

wrto4556 said:

I think that's loose. Any spade i'm folding to a bet. Any A or K I think i'm folding, too. The Q or J I will call down, and bet if checked to on the river.

yikes, that was a typo. i'm definitely folding to a spade.but you would fold to an A or K?you don't think he might raise AQo, checkraise the flop with the nut flush draw, and bet on a non-spade K turn since you showed weakness on the flop? or is the whole idea that a mouse wouldn't bet on that turn unless he improved?aseem

[wrto4556]

A tight raiser raisesAKAQAJKQNotice there is more chances of him havinga A...so i'm definately folding to an A. Matter of fact, I think I should fold to a K and Q, too.I am either barely ahead or way behind.

[obs]

Yea, looks like he has a big spade here.

[cdddc75]

obs said:

Yea, looks like he has a big spade here.

My guess is A:spade: J off. The turn card opened up three more fives as wheel outs for the Mouse.

[wrto4556]

So do we agree on folding to any , A, K, or Q?

[akishore]

wrto4556 said:

So do we agree on folding to any , A, K, or Q?

in all honesty, i wouldn't fold to a queen or jack.i think you're being too liberal when you say that a mouse raises AJ and KQ. most weak/tight players only raise big pairs and AK (heck, some even limp with AK).the other factor is that if the turn came a non-spade queen and the mouse bet, that could easily just be a bet since you only called the flop. he could really just have ace-high.i would fold to any spade, A or K, call any queen or jack, and raise any other card.aseem

[Vade]

Yup...and if a jack falls, then continuing makes sense as only AJ possible I think as far as jacks go