16 replies to this topic

[cb04]

Whats everyone opinion on jermaine Oneals statements regarding the NBA age limit being racist? myself I think its rediculous anyone wish to discuss this further?

[RonBurgundy]

weakened his whole argument which otherwise was slightly reasonable, very stupid

[Emptyeye]

It's anything but.Really, if anything, an age limit would HELP basketball players by encouraging them to stay in school and pick up some skills beyond shooting a basketball, rather than chasing an nigh impossible dream (For every Kobe Bryant or LaBron James, there's at least one Kwame Brown).

[Swift_Psycho]

Emptyeye said:

It's anything but.Really, if anything, an age limit would HELP basketball players by encouraging them to stay in school and pick up some skills beyond shooting a basketball, rather than chasing an nigh impossible dream (For every Kobe Bryant or LaBron James, there's at least one Kwame Brown).

I think the OP was saying that Jermaine O'Neal's comments (about r@cism) were ridiculous, not the idea of an age limit. You're first comment sounds like you misunderstood that.I agree with your opinion on the matter though. I remember reading a story about a guy who entered the draft the same year as Kobe, but no one remember that guy. He was a high school star, but no one even wanted him as a free agent. Last I heard of him, he's bagging groceries (literally) with nearly all hopes of playing in the NBA gone. It's horrible to hear stories like this, and I honestly don't believe that it is even worth one story like this in return for the discovery of one basketball star who would have been discovered a couple years later anyway. Jermaine O'Neal should really just shut up. Even if it had to do with race (and I doubt it does), the age limit is still a good idea.

[gobears]

I'm against the age limit. Why should a Kobe Bryant or LeBron James give up their $ just because other high school kids greatly overvalue their value in the marketplace?Especially given the fact that there are only so many years that an athlete can make $ before father time shows up and sends them off to early retirement. My thinking is that if a kid doesn't get drafted, why can't he instead go back to college as a fallback? If they really cared about the kid, they should do that.Also, what if a Lebron got injured playing college basketball as a freshman? There is no way any insurance will make up for the $ that he would have made from basketball and endorsements.Basically, an age limit penalizes the most talented kids - if they can send an eighteen year old to war or treat him as an adult for any crimes, why can't he play professional basketball or football?

[rollito]

gobears said:

I'm against the age limit. Why should a Kobe Bryant or LeBron James give up their $ just because other high school kids greatly overvalue their value in the marketplace?Especially given the fact that there are only so many years that an athlete can make $ before father time shows up and sends them off to early retirement. My thinking is that if a kid doesn't get drafted, why can't he instead go back to college as a fallback? If they really cared about the kid, they should do that.Also, what if a Lebron got injured playing college basketball as a freshman? There is no way any insurance will make up for the $ that he would have made from basketball and endorsements.Basically, an age limit penalizes the most talented kids - if they can send an eighteen year old to war or treat him as an adult for any crimes, why can't he play professional basketball or football?

I agree with you in that an age limit would be unfair to the kids......there are teams willing to gamble, and the kids are gambling too...as far as kids entering the draft and then returning to college ball the nba has a rule that allows this, just as long as the kid doesn't hire an agent, even if he is drafted he can opt to return to school......i see nothing wrong with the system and how it is now, what would be the difference between a kid going to college for 4 years, not getting a degree and then flopping in the nba, he still has no college diploma and no nba career....there are plenty of players that have gone this route and have ended up in grocery stores as well.Guys like Lebron and Amare Stoudemire are prime examples of why an age limit would be unfair. They obviously had the talent to excel in the nba at a young age so why take this option away from them.

[digitalmonkey]

I didn't hear O'neal's comments and am not sure about the topic, but I would like to hear anyone who can argue against this statement.

gobears said:

if they can send an eighteen year old to war or treat him as an adult for any crimes, why can't he play professional basketball or football?

Not holding my breath!

[princeof56k]

Most people assume the age limit will only affect the black kids from poor neighborhoods. What O'Neil seems to forget is that an age limit would also affect some of the kids coming from Europe, who for the most part are white.Personally I'm against the age limit. It should be their choice as to whether they can play or not.

[Vade]

I'm against the age limit, reluctantly, because there are a lot of kids who really need money and have pro potential. There's really no compelling reason to prevent them from doing that, except for the argument that they are not mature enough.That has been a bit of a problem, but veterans like Artest have the real maturity problems, and college ain't gonna help that

[Solodell]

Well first off, Jermaine O'Neal looks like a moron right now in my opinion. I think the point of the age limit is to make the game better. So many teams have been drafting on potential and not on actual ability to play in the here and now that they end up suffering. Even Jermaine O'Neal didn't do anything for the team that drafted him. He had to wait about 4 years until he was mature enough to play, then was on another team. Granted there are busts no matter how old someone is, but the likelihood seems a bit greater for high schoolers coming out. I think if the league really wants to do this, they'll have to give something up, like maybe increasing salaries for draft picks. That way they have to wait a bit longer to come out, but get more money when they do. Oh, and when their waiting, they're doing something crazy like getting a college education for free.

[cb04]

I think Shane Battier had a great point, right now solid veterns who CAN still contribute are being pushed out of the league, one by one, while 18 year olds who CAN NOT contribute right now, but have the almighty words "upside" and "potential" stapled on them. An age limit of 20 would delay these guys NBA money by 2 years, some only 1. Think of the wonders it would do for the college game, imagine last year instead of watching Carmelo and Lebron fight it out for the ROY award instead fighting for the player of the year and National Championship. I do agree that people like Lebron, Amare, some Europeans, can fit into the league right away, but as is life majority rules, and the majority of 20 year olds and younger are not ready and are ruining their pro careers by coming out early.

[NicksDad1970]

I believe I'm for a minimum age. Having said that I don't think it has a BIT to do with race. Are there only white vets that are losing their roster spots? I doubt it.....If the majority of players are African American then couldn't a vet say that NOT having an age limit is racism? Sounds just about as stupid doesn't it?

[MilesZS]

I've decided (even though I'm a big JO fan) that I'm all for the age limit. I understand that some great players have found opportunities in the NBA straight outta high school. I think, however, that they would be more productive both in the game and outside of the game after having spent a few years in the college game. This also helps the NBA in that many of these players will already have big names after 2 years of waiting for them to be able to show up on the big man's court -- and they'll already have some experience under their belt that is more than just playing high school ball. It's a big marketing asset for the NBA (made names), truly a good thing for the players as well. It would also be fantastic for the quality of the college game. Just incredible. The argument for the going to war at 18 etc etc thing is a bit tricky. If you're under 20 it sounds pretty crappy too. Truth is, however, the NBA and NFL, etc etc, are businesses. They can choose who works for them and who doesn't. The teams are all franchise organizations (like a single McDonald's) under the NBA's (or what have you) license and jurisdiction. Obviously there is a union for the players, but because of some of the other things the NBA is pushing for the union to accept, the age limit will likely be the one the PU caves on. I can't remember the others specifically, but one involves strict penalties and increased testing for marijuana use.If you didn't know, I swear half the NBA smokes pot on a regular basis, including like the entire Trailblazers squad. Not that there's anything wrong with it, necessarily, but the league is trying to crack down on it. It looks bad when Zack Randolph gets caught every other day with a sack and a bowl.EDIT: AFter all that I didn't answer the question. The race card gets pulled too often. I see his point. I don't agree completely, or disagree whole-heartedly, so maybe that's why I subconsciously avoided it. I just don't honestly feel that the majority of the execs in the NBA are truly racist. In fact, it would be stupid of them to act on their racism if they are. I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but young African-American males are currently likely the most marketable of any other combination. The NBA is all about entertainment and marketability.

[bigkg]

Vade said:

I'm against the age limit, reluctantly, because there are a lot of kids who really need money and have pro potential.

It isn't like they won't be getting paid in college...hehehe... :roll:

[rollito]

MilesZS said:

I've decided (even though I'm a big JO fan) that I'm all for the age limit.  I understand that some great players have found opportunities in the NBA straight outta high school.  I think, however, that they would be more productive both in the game and outside of the game after having spent a few years in the college game.  This also helps the NBA in that many of these players will already have big names after 2 years of waiting for them to be able to show up on the big man's court  -- and they'll already have some experience under their belt that is more than just playing high school ball.  It's a big marketing asset for the NBA (made names), truly a good thing for the players as well.  It would also be fantastic for the quality of the college game.  Just incredible.  

I don't see how a two year age limit would be that beneficial to the nba.....i do agree that it would help the college game, and that the college game is not as good as it could be.....but why can't they compromise and make it a 1 year limit.....there are clearly plenty of college players who are ready for the nba after just one year of college ball, and even some right out of high school, but one year in college would be all it takes to prove that.....what was there left for carmelo in college ball after one year, or what would have been left for lebron after dominating the college game for a year.....i think a two year limit is just a little much for the nba because there are plenty of kids ready right out of high school or after just one year of college ball....basically a one year limit would be enough for both sides and would be reasonable in weeding out the players who are ready, and those who are not ready......imo

[Swift_Psycho]

rollito said:

MilesZS said:

I've decided (even though I'm a big JO fan) that I'm all for the age limit.  I understand that some great players have found opportunities in the NBA straight outta high school.  I think, however, that they would be more productive both in the game and outside of the game after having spent a few years in the college game.  This also helps the NBA in that many of these players will already have big names after 2 years of waiting for them to be able to show up on the big man's court  -- and they'll already have some experience under their belt that is more than just playing high school ball.  It's a big marketing asset for the NBA (made names), truly a good thing for the players as well.  It would also be fantastic for the quality of the college game.  Just incredible.  

I don't see how a two year age limit would be that beneficial to the nba.....i do agree that it would help the college game, and that the college game is not as good as it could be.....but why can't they compromise and make it a 1 year limit.....there are clearly plenty of college players who are ready for the nba after just one year of college ball, and even some right out of high school, but one year in college would be all it takes to prove that.....what was there left for carmelo in college ball after one year, or what would have been left for lebron after dominating the college game for a year.....i think a two year limit is just a little much for the nba because there are plenty of kids ready right out of high school or after just one year of college ball....basically a one year limit would be enough for both sides and would be reasonable in weeding out the players who are ready, and those who are not ready......imo

I'm not really criticising your idea because it sounds reasonable. But, you are overestimating just how many kids are ready for the NBA right out of high school. It certainly isn't "plenty." Most that join really should have gone to college for a year or two to work out kinks and get physically more ready. I even think Kobe actually fell under this category. He would have been better off playing college ball for a year before jumping to the pros. And like I said before, for ever success story, there are a ton of failures out there.

[rollito]

Swift_Psycho said:

rollito said:

MilesZS said:

I've decided (even though I'm a big JO fan) that I'm all for the age limit.  I understand that some great players have found opportunities in the NBA straight outta high school.  I think, however, that they would be more productive both in the game and outside of the game after having spent a few years in the college game.  This also helps the NBA in that many of these players will already have big names after 2 years of waiting for them to be able to show up on the big man's court  -- and they'll already have some experience under their belt that is more than just playing high school ball.  It's a big marketing asset for the NBA (made names), truly a good thing for the players as well.  It would also be fantastic for the quality of the college game.  Just incredible.  

I don't see how a two year age limit would be that beneficial to the nba.....i do agree that it would help the college game, and that the college game is not as good as it could be.....but why can't they compromise and make it a 1 year limit.....there are clearly plenty of college players who are ready for the nba after just one year of college ball, and even some right out of high school, but one year in college would be all it takes to prove that.....what was there left for carmelo in college ball after one year, or what would have been left for lebron after dominating the college game for a year.....i think a two year limit is just a little much for the nba because there are plenty of kids ready right out of high school or after just one year of college ball....basically a one year limit would be enough for both sides and would be reasonable in weeding out the players who are ready, and those who are not ready......imo

I'm not really criticising your idea because it sounds reasonable. But, you are overestimating just how many kids are ready for the NBA right out of high school. It certainly isn't "plenty." Most that join really should have gone to college for a year or two to work out kinks and get physically more ready. I even think Kobe actually fell under this category. He would have been better off playing college ball for a year before jumping to the pros. And like I said before, for ever success story, there are a ton of failures out there.

I think times have changed since even when kobe came out, which was 8 years ago.....this lebron, amare age is the start of something new in basketball where highschool players can make an impact....i don't doubt that in the past most kids would have benefited from college ball, i just think in the future there will be more kids ready right out of high school, but i would be in favor of a one year limit which would make it more apparent who is ready and who is not, rather than a two year limit.....there have been plenty of players who only played one year in college and have had successful nba careers......mainly i don't like the two year stipulation on the limit, and would like to see it changed to one year, and in that case i might be in favor of it