Jump to content


The Poker Tournament Formula


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#61 TwoFourOffsuit

TwoFourOffsuit

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 336 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:writing, reading, visiting restaurants and of course, poker.
  • Favorite Poker Game:O8, HORSE, Crazy Pineapple

Posted 27 March 2007 - 08:31 PM

First of all, GREAT stuff to bring up, hblask! The variance in tournament speed as the blinds change is actually a topic of discussion on the forum for his book and it is definitely a concept he is thinking about.I remember the general card strategies change as your stack, relative to the size of the blinds, goes up and down. Beyond that, as with any poker strategy, it's really up to the player to make reads and pick up other tells and indicators to figure out when to make moves and diverge from the stated approach.Also, Highlow, you bring up a good question about his credibility. One chapter in the book indicates a graph of his losses and wins in his first 75 tournaments. The graph shows a zig zagging increase upward all the way, slight downward trends followed by huge cashes that net a profit. He cashed in 14 of his first 75 tourneys. He also still plays tournaments to this day, though lately he has experimented with slower, higher buy-in tourneys and their satellites to develop his game there.
When in doubt, don't fold. See what happens.

#62 SlackerInc

SlackerInc

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,290 posts
  • Interests:tennis, music, politics (I'm a Democrat)
  • Favorite Poker Game:Tournament No-Limit Hold 'Em (2nd: Razz)

Posted 27 March 2007 - 09:05 PM

This is such a great thread. Very intriguing points, hblask. One of the things I would like to discuss is something Coperncus and I got into in another thread recently. He said that a lot of people believe that HoH advises going into push/fold mode too early. Yet Snyder advises getting into that mode much, much earlier. What do you guys think? I welcomed this advice as I had previously had a lot of trouble in the lower end of the Yellow Zone (where you're not supposed to push according to Harrington, but it's bombs away per Snyder). And he advises some seemingly crazy pushes: For instance, with an M of 7-13, in any position, "raise or reraise all in with 77 to AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, KT, and QJ". And in late position with the same M, "if first in, raise all in with any two cards" (p. 164).-Alan

#63 CobaltBlue

CobaltBlue

    The Outlier

  • Members
  • 10,379 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Royal Palm Beach, FL
  • Favorite Poker Game:Hold 'Em, Crazy Pineapple, 2-7 TD

Posted 27 March 2007 - 09:14 PM

View PostSlackerInc, on Wednesday, March 28th, 2007, 12:05 AM, said:

This is such a great thread. Very intriguing points, hblask. One of the things I would like to discuss is something Coperncus and I got into in another thread recently. He said that a lot of people believe that HoH advises going into push/fold mode too early. Yet Snyder advises getting into that mode much, much earlier. What do you guys think? I welcomed this advice as I had previously had a lot of trouble in the lower end of the Yellow Zone (where you're not supposed to push according to Harrington, but it's bombs away per Snyder). And he advises some seemingly crazy pushes: For instance, with an M of 7-13, in any position, "raise or reraise all in with 77 to AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, KT, and QJ". And in late position with the same M, "if first in, raise all in with any two cards" (p. 164).-Alan
I still haven't implemented this advice. I will say that after getting too liberal about not pushing (just putting in a normal raise w/ M's of 5-7), I've started realizing that I need to push a little bit bigger. Still not sure I can go for Snyder's numbers though.

#64 hblask

hblask

    Perpetual slow learner

  • Members
  • 9,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minnesota
  • Interests:Just deal the cards already

Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:22 AM

View PostSlackerInc, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007, 11:05 PM, said:

This is such a great thread. Very intriguing points, hblask. One of the things I would like to discuss is something Coperncus and I got into in another thread recently. He said that a lot of people believe that HoH advises going into push/fold mode too early. Yet Snyder advises getting into that mode much, much earlier. What do you guys think? I welcomed this advice as I had previously had a lot of trouble in the lower end of the Yellow Zone (where you're not supposed to push according to Harrington, but it's bombs away per Snyder). And he advises some seemingly crazy pushes: For instance, with an M of 7-13, in any position, "raise or reraise all in with 77 to AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, KT, and QJ". And in late position with the same M, "if first in, raise all in with any two cards" (p. 164).-Alan
I'm with Snyder on this. I have been one of the tightest players in poker history, and I tended to bubble most of the time. So I opened up my game a little. And limped into the money. And opened it up a little more. And busted out sooner or got a little deeper. I think if I loosen up more, this trend will continue. I think Snyder's advice increases your swings but improves your return, especially on an hourly basis. Limping into the money takes forever and pays little. Bust out early and get on to the next one, or give yourself a fighting chance for your ability to play a role when the cards do come along. Fewer minutes played, more dollars.The problem with Harrington is if you wait as long as he says to really turn it up, even a double-up doesn't buy you that much. All it does is puts you in a position to either hit some cards or wait until you are in trouble and need another double up. I always feel like I'm clinging to life support, trying for the desperation double-up until I get a decent run of cards. I don't know about you guys, but I don't get good cards often enough to base a tournament on waiting for them. And if I do get my 2 good hands per hour, and everyone folds to my raise, where am I then? So you have to weigh the issue of "what are the odds that I will get good cards AND will get paid off for them?" versus "what are the odds that this move with marginal cards or junk will cripple me?" And the more tournaments I play, it looks like making moves is the lower risk. They don't have to pay off all that often to make a profit, because they are so easy to let go of and tend to pay off big. And even bad hands typically have a 1 in 3 chance of winning against random hands.
"Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?" -- J. Coulton


#65 DonMcCoy

DonMcCoy

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pryor, Oklahoma
  • Favorite Poker Game:No Limit Texas Hold'em

Posted 20 May 2009 - 12:57 PM

View Postcubbybri, on Tuesday, March 13th, 2007, 12:12 PM, said:

I can only add this at the moment as I ended up skimming through a lot of this book while at Chapter's but it has been a few months ago now.The patience factor I would need a refresher on but I do recall and have used the Chips-Cards Position advice a bit and it makes sense to me.Cards-Chips-Position is the poker version of playing Rock-Paper-Scissors. Rock is your chips(easy to remember). Paper is your cards. This leaves Scissors to equal your position.When it comes down to how you wish to play your hand, you need to know what advantages you have and just like rock paper, scissors, there is cycle to it.Cards beat chips, Chips beat position, Position beats cards.I hope I have that right.I found this just reinforced things when playing and it's just simple to remember quickly(especially the online game).The patience factor had a little too much math for me to recall from memory now but it is a formula based on I think starting chips, speed of levels and the amount the blinds move up(could be other factors like number of players, etc). The formula spits out a number and you use that number to decide the way you need to play.SHort blinds, low chips, looser and more aggressive.Long BLinds, lotsa chips, -tighter or more ring game style.Again, stuff that most already know but this gives a more formulmatic way of figuring your style of play.This is recall info, but I hope it may stir some discussion. I may run out and get that book now if there will be some discusssion on it.
"Cards-Chips-Position is the poker version of playing Rock-Paper-Scissors. Rock is your chips(easy to remember). Paper is your cards. This leaves Scissors to equal your position.When it comes down to how you wish to play your hand, you need to know what advantages you have and just like rock paper, scissors, there is cycle to it.Cards beat chips, Chips beat position, Position beats cards."Is this formula only good in fast paced tournaments, or can it be applied to all tournaments? I find this VERY eye opening. It's like the day I read Phil Gordon's Rule of 4 and 2. I think I'll buy this book.

#66 Yahkin

Yahkin

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 804 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin
  • Favorite Poker Game:Whatever I'm winning at

Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:31 PM

wth
Offending people since 1973.

#67 DonMcCoy

DonMcCoy

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 70 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pryor, Oklahoma
  • Favorite Poker Game:No Limit Texas Hold'em

Posted 21 May 2009 - 02:51 AM

View PostYahkin, on Wednesday, May 20th, 2009, 4:31 PM, said:

wth
Yeah, I don't know how that happened. Sorry!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users