17 replies to this topic

[obs]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is CO with Q:club:, Q:diamond:. 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.Flop: (8.50 SB) 8:spade:, 3:heart:, K:spade: (4 players)BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.Turn: (6.25 BB) A:spade: (2 players)MP3 checks, Hero...

[Swift_Psycho]

I think I'm checking behind the guy on the turn. If he was betting a flush draw and not a king, it got there. Is he capable of letting go of a king here thinking that maybe you hit an ace? If not, then a check is probably in order here for sure.

[cdddc75]

...bets.Fold to a raise, but bet once to represent the flush/ace. Checking here indicates weakness and lets MP3 think he is ahead with his king. Since he is ahead, let's make him sweat.

[custom36]

Well, I'm not a great limit player, so this may be flawed advice, but I would check behind him. Then, on the river, assuming you don't hit your card, if he checks, I bet. If he bets, I call.

[CoolHandLaw]

cdddc75 said:

...bets.Fold to a raise, but bet once to represent the flush/ace.  Checking here indicates weakness and lets MP3 think he is ahead with his king.  Since he is ahead, let's make him sweat.

agreed here. It's the only way to win this pot now.

[Swift_Psycho]

cdddc75 said:

...bets.Fold to a raise, but bet once to represent the flush/ace.  Checking here indicates weakness and lets MP3 think he is ahead with his king.  Since he is ahead, let's make him sweat.

I agree to an extent, but it depends on the player (as I said in my first post on this thread). If he isn't capable of folding a king here, a bet is just throwing money away.

[CoolHandLaw]

Swift_Psycho said:

cdddc75 said:

...bets.Fold to a raise, but bet once to represent the flush/ace.  Checking here indicates weakness and lets MP3 think he is ahead with his king.  Since he is ahead, let's make him sweat.

I agree to an extent, but it depends on the player (as I said in my first post on this thread). If he isn't capable of folding a king here, a bet is just throwing money away.

I think betting here on the turn will give you a free card on the river. If he just calls your turn bet. If he raises you now, you can still let it go...up to you.But you're right, he may not be willing to let the K go and may just call you, in which case, still with the free card on the river. You get information out of this bet.Would you be willing to call the river if blank came off and he bet? It'd be harder since you wouldn't know what you're up against now.

[wrto4556]

What did raising the flop accomplish?

[Smasharoo]

Are you kidding?Bet. You don't win this hand checking, you do get a weak king to lay it down more than enough of the time to bet here.

[obs]

wrto4556 said:

What did raising the flop accomplish?

Fold equity since it was immediately to my right. Even if someone has the king, there is a good chance they would fear I had a stronger one. Plus, even if I am ahead I can still be outdrawn by an A. This raise is standard IMHO.

[wrto4556]

You're either way ahead or way behind, imo. I'd just call and see what happened on the turn.

[cdddc75]

obs said:

wrto4556 said:

What did raising the flop accomplish?

Fold equity since it was immediately to my right. Even if someone has the king, there is a good chance they would fear I had a stronger one. Plus, even if I am ahead I can still be outdrawn by an A. This raise is standard IMHO.

You just told us why betting is the play to make on the turn. Put that fear of being outdrawn into your opponent when a double scare card hits.

[obs]

Smasharoo said:

Are you kidding?Bet.  You don't win this hand checking, you do get a weak king to lay it down more than enough of the time to bet here.

Thank you. That is exactly what I did with the intention of folding to a raise. Even if he has the king, there is a good chance he will lay it down since I was representing a strong hand the entire way. And he did fold after my turn bet.Only read I had on him was tight. 13 VPIP after only 25 hands.

[JaysonWeber]

obs said:

Smasharoo said:

Are you kidding?Bet.  You don't win this hand checking, you do get a weak king to lay it down more than enough of the time to bet here.

Thank you. That is exactly what I did with the intention of folding to a raise. Even if he has the king, there is a good chance he will lay it down since I was representing a strong hand the entire way. And he did fold after my turn bet.Only read I had on him was tight. 13 VPIP after only 25 hands.

Not much of a read to go on... So... Lets not talk about the flop, just the turn. Say you do re-raise the flop and get a smooth call from him with 2 spades showing and 1 overcard to your Queen.What hands do you put him on at this point? Given the LITTLE information you have, you know he's a rather tight player.At this point, I'm putting him on a High-Flush draw, A Q or K J. Thats just top of my head, with no prior knowledge I have to figure after the turn I'm beat 2/3 of the time. He checked it to you, so you bet and he raises on 4th with another card to come. Are you willing to call 2 more bets to see if your QQ is good? My choice would be check here everytime in this position against what Seems to be a tight player, Check it and call the river if you think the Queens are good. You're only calling 1 more bet at this point into a pot that lays 1-7 to you on the river IF he bets the river. I'm checking 4th the whole way, I dont feel safe throwing 3 more BB's into this pot.

[wrto4556]

Call the flop.If checked to on the turn, bet. If bet into on the turn, i'd fold.Since you raised the flop, bet the turn. Check behind on the river.

[JaysonWeber]

wrto4556 said:

Call the flop.If checked to on the turn, bet. If bet into on the turn, i'd fold.Since you raised the flop, bet the turn. Check behind on the river.

Once again WRTO is right and I'm wrong, Talked about it. He's correct here the check behind on 4th is meaningless I forgot the chance @ a free showdown if he checks 5th. That along with Fold Value and the fact that you might have the best hand... GG with the bet after his check.

[Smasharoo]

I think the flop raise is close enough not to really matter. You just have to know what you're going to do if everyone calls it. (ie: check/fold the turn)

[obs]

Smasharoo said:

I think the flop raise is close enough not to really matter.  You just have to know what you're going to do if everyone calls it.  (ie: check/fold the turn)

Yea. If it was anything but heads up I was taking the free card and folding to a bet.