17 replies to this topic

[monoatomic]

Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converterMP2 ($15.08)MP3 ($24.14)Hero ($24.15)Button ($21.58)SB ($23.25)BB ($26.72)UTG ($24.75)UTG+1 ($24.4)UTG+2 ($36.48)MP1 ($15.22)Preflop: Hero is CO with [3h], [9s], [2c], [As]. UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP3 calls $1.90.I am dealt a very nice starter. Nut low draw, 3 to the wheel, and the ace is suited up as well. I make a standard raise and have 2 come along for the ride.Flop: ($9.35) [3d], [Kd], [5s] (3 players)UTG bets $5.Flop comes down nicely. I have the nut low draw and a possible high draw if a 4 drops for me. Then I see that there is a 5 dollar bet and a $21.00 all in.What would you all do in this situation?

[custom36]

F.O.L.D.Need I say more?

[cdddc75]

monoatomic said:

Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converterMP2 ($15.08)MP3 ($24.14)Hero ($24.15)Button ($21.58)SB ($23.25)BB ($26.72)UTG ($24.75)UTG+1 ($24.4)UTG+2 ($36.48)MP1 ($15.22)Preflop: Hero is CO with [3h], [9s], [2c], [As].    UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP3 calls $1.90.I am dealt a very nice starter. Nut low draw, 3 to the wheel, and the ace is suited up as well. I make a standard raise and have 2 come along for the ride.Don't like this reraise.  You just wiped out the garbage limpers and will be likely splitting the low with MP3.Flop: ($9.35) [3d], [Kd], [5s] (3 players)UTG bets $5.Flop comes down nicely. I have the nut low draw and a possible high draw if a 4 drops for me. Then I see that there is a 5 dollar bet and a $21.00 all in.What would you all do in this situation?

Interesting dilemma. You could catch runner runner spades to scoop or three quarter if the low is made. If a 4 comes, you are splitting at best, and might only get a quarter if MP3 has A26. Considering you are drawing to the wheel or runner runner flush for high and can't do much better than split the low, I'd fold and wait for a better spot. Based on my random guess on UTG and MP3's holdings, I think folding is best. See link for my guess:http://twodimes.net/h/?z=889926

[monoatomic]

Also if you post a reponse please give your reasoning behind it. Don't just post stupid shit like.F.O.L.D. need I say more?This accomplishes absolutely nothing other then proving to the world you know how to type on a keyboard.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

A very smart person once said that limit O/8 is about scooping big pots, and PLO8 is about getting 3/4ths of big pots.I would imagine you're up against something like a set and the nut low draw, or an A246 kind of hand. In any event, with no more counterfeit protection, you definitely can't call this. PLO8 is about exploiting big edges, and with just a nut low draw with no counterfeit protection you should definitely fold.A more interesting situation would have been if you got to the river and made a naked nut low (i.e. absolutely nothing for the high) and it was all-in/call to you. I would still probably advocate folding, because you've got to figure someone else has a nut low with a better high, and you'd get quartered for your whole stack. Not a favorable situation.Remember, you're trying to get 3/4ths of monster pots. And exploit PLO8 rookies who will call all of their chips off on a naked nut low or a naked nut low draw. Don't be a rookie. Fold.

[cdddc75]

TJ_Eckleburg said:

A very smart person once said that limit O/8 is about scooping big pots, and PLO8 is about getting 3/4ths of big pots.I would imagine you're up against something like a set and the nut low draw, or an A246 kind of hand.  

My read agreed. UTG has a set of Kings and MP3 has A2 for sure, probably with a 4 also. About the best you could do here is get half, and the odds of doing that are thin. The more I look at this, the easier the fold is.

[custom36]

Fine, if I have to explain it for you to understand... This person likely has 2 pair or a set. So, the only way you would be able to win is if you hit your gutshot straight draw, hit your flush, or hit an A. At most, you have 15 outs. You would be pretty much all in here. Easy fold for me.

[Smasharoo]

Flop comes down nicelyStop playing O8 immediately.

[monoatomic]

Well to buck the trend of everyone I called.Basic reasoning is based solely on the betting. With K 3 5 on the board the only hand which would make sense in betting all in with was trips something. If he had any kind of low hand he wouldn't have pushed all in. There would be no reason to over bet the pot so greatly if you wanted people in the hand. The person who bet the 5 dollars originally was alittle different. I figured leading out betting half the pot was basically saying "I have A2xx". I took the whole time to decide to push or not and came to the decision that if I called the all in the original better would likely fold to an all in and a call.This may be a loose call on my part but based on the play at the low limit PLO games I would make this call everytime.End results.Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converterMP2 ($15.08)MP3 ($24.14)Hero ($24.15)Button ($21.58)SB ($23.25)BB ($26.72)UTG ($24.75)UTG+1 ($24.4)UTG+2 ($36.48)MP1 ($15.22)Preflop: Hero is CO with [3h], [9s], [2c], [As]. UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP3 calls $1.90.Flop: ($9.35) [3d], [Kd], [5s] (3 players)UTG bets $5, Hero calls $21.14, UTG calls $16.14.Turn: ($72.77) [4s] (3 players, 1 all-in)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.01 (All-In), UTG calls $0.01.River: ($72.79) [Js] (3 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $72.79bear2838 balance $0, lost $24.14 [ Qc 6s Ks Kc ] [ a flush, king high -- Ks,Js,6s,5s,4s ]ScreaminStvn balance $0.6, lost $24.15 [ Ad 3s Td 7c ] [ LO: 7,5,4,3,A | HI: a pair of threes -- Ad,Kd,Js,3s,3d ]Monoatomic72 balance $69.79 [ LO: 5,4,3,2,A | HI: a flush, ace high with ace kicker -- As,Js,9s,5s,4s

[custom36]

You got incredibly lucky. I know many people that would love to play you if you do this consistantly.

[TJ_Eckleburg]

I was right about the set, and sort of right about the moron with A37T. That's kind of a low/straight wrap, sorta.The point is though, that this is a horrible call. Not trying to start a flame war, and I'm not trying to make it personal. Clearly though you can see you had to catch a miracle running flush AND low with no counterfeit protection.Nice hand, and yay for scooping two people. I think it's a good example of what not to do though.

[cdddc75]

monoatomic said:

Well to buck the trend of everyone I called.Basic reasoning is based solely on the betting. With K 3 5 on the board the only hand which would make sense in betting all in with was trips something. If he had any kind of low hand he wouldn't have pushed all in. There would be no reason to over bet the pot so greatly if you wanted people in the hand. The person who bet the 5 dollars originally was alittle different. I figured leading out betting half the pot was basically saying "I have A2xx". I took the whole time to decide to push or not and came to the decision that if I called the all in the original better would likely fold to an all in and a call.This may be a loose call on my part but based on the play at the low limit PLO games I would make this call everytime.End results.Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converterMP2 ($15.08)MP3 ($24.14)Hero ($24.15)Button ($21.58)SB ($23.25)BB ($26.72)UTG ($24.75)UTG+1 ($24.4)UTG+2 ($36.48)MP1 ($15.22)Preflop: Hero is CO with [3h], [9s], [2c], [As].    UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP3 calls $1.90.Flop: ($9.35) [3d], [Kd], [5s] (3 players)UTG bets $5, Hero calls $21.14, UTG calls $16.14.Turn: ($72.77) [4s] (3 players, 1 all-in)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.01 (All-In), UTG calls $0.01.River: ($72.79) [Js] (3 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $72.79bear2838 balance $0, lost $24.14 [ Qc 6s Ks Kc ] [ a flush, king high -- Ks,Js,6s,5s,4s ]ScreaminStvn balance $0.6, lost $24.15 [ Ad 3s Td 7c ] [ LO: 7,5,4,3,A | HI: a pair of threes -- Ad,Kd,Js,3s,3d ]Monoatomic72 balance $69.79 [ LO: 5,4,3,2,A | HI: a flush, ace high with ace kicker -- As,Js,9s,5s,4s

Congratulations for sucking out and for being at a table with a moron named ScreaminStvn. Even though his hand was worse than we thought, your call was still bad:http://twodimes.net/h/?z=891462A 34.5% EV on 33% pot equity in O8 is NOT the kind of statistical edge you want. Change the MP3 trey to a deuce, which is what he was far more likely to have, and you will see why this call was significantly -EV.Your worst move of all in that hand was not raising the last penny to go all in. What was that?

[akishore]

wow, no offense, but this isn't a "fun little hand" at all. this is by far the easiest fold situation and the most terrible call i have ever seen...and that flop didn't "come down nicely", either...aseem

[Rocketwadster]

maybe it is just me, but I don't believe you should have raised pre-flop. You have an average hand at best (good low but little high, 9 is useless except for the flush). :? Then, it seems like an easy fold after the flop to the bet and raise, as you are only on a draw for both high and low. :cry: I can't see you making a profit over the long haul playing like you did (even though you happened to win this particular time). Sorry if I was harsh. :wink:

[akishore]

agree with rocketwadster.your pre-flop hand is marginal at best. you haven't been playing this game for too long if you think A932 ace-suited is a nice starter.one key concept in this game is that the good starting hands have all four cards working together. the 9 is definitely a dangler, even though it's suited. a suited 4, 5, 6, K, Q, J or 10 would be much stronger.you also don't understand the function of raises in this game. your hand, A932, does not thrive heads-up or three-handed at all. it thrives in multiway pots strongly, for the same reasons as suited connectors and low pocket pairs do. unless you get a good flop, this hand is done. you also are drawing to only the nut low basically (and very occasionally the nut flush for high), and you should know that you don't want to be playing lows only in shorthanded pots.why? because you face the danger of getting quartered and freerolled, two huge concepts in PLO8. this is especially true considering that there was a raise pre-flop--most people in this game rarely raise with anything other than A2xx (sometimes AAxx), and against that, you face a strong danger of getting quartered and freerolled.i would never raise with A932 ace-suited in this game, nor would i even call a raise with it. you did even worse by reraising with it.the post-flop play has been covered, as this is a massively easy fold.the flop is Kd 5s 3d.all you have is an uninsured nut low draw and a backdoor nut flush draw. when there's a bet and a raise, you're most likely looking at being against a set, a nut flush draw, and/or a nut low draw.all you have is a nut low draw (your backdoor nut flush draw is very negligible).if you're counterfeited, you're done for.yikes, this is an extremely easy fold, and you got extremely lucky being up against at least one moron and hitting your low without getting counterfeited as well as your backdoor flush draw.really, i don't mean offense, but this was just terrible poker, and i'm 100% sure that playing like this will make you a losing player. calls like the one you made are the reason that PLO8 is such a profitable game for those who know what they are doing, because they can push with Ad 2d Kh Ks and know that they'll almost definitely scoop or three-quarter the pot.post more hands. you'll get ripped apart if you make a wrong play, but at least you'll learn. hopefully you learned from this hand.aseem

[ahosang]

If the 3:diamond: on the flop was a 4, 6, 7 or 8 of say, then I'd say call as you'd have the flush draw proper and low draw with protection.But as it stands you really have no odds to call that bet.

[akishore]

ahosang said:

If the 3:diamond: on the flop was a  4, 6, 7 or 8 of say, then I'd say call as you'd have the flush draw proper and low draw with protection.

but of course! you make it too easy, sir... that little change of card dramatically changes the entire situation! :-) aseem

[Absolute]

monoatomic said:

Well to buck the trend of everyone I called.Basic reasoning is based solely on the betting. With K 3 5 on the board the only hand which would make sense in betting all in with was trips something. If he had any kind of low hand he wouldn't have pushed all in. There would be no reason to over bet the pot so greatly if you wanted people in the hand. The person who bet the 5 dollars originally was alittle different. I figured leading out betting half the pot was basically saying "I have A2xx". I took the whole time to decide to push or not and came to the decision that if I called the all in the original better would likely fold to an all in and a call.This may be a loose call on my part but based on the play at the low limit PLO games I would make this call everytime.End results.Party Poker Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converterMP2 ($15.08)MP3 ($24.14)Hero ($24.15)Button ($21.58)SB ($23.25)BB ($26.72)UTG ($24.75)UTG+1 ($24.4)UTG+2 ($36.48)MP1 ($15.22)Preflop: Hero is CO with [3h], [9s], [2c], [As]. UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP3 calls $1.90.Flop: ($9.35) [3d], [Kd], [5s] (3 players)UTG bets $5, Hero calls $21.14, UTG calls $16.14.Turn: ($72.77) [4s] (3 players, 1 all-in)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.01 (All-In), UTG calls $0.01.River: ($72.79) [Js] (3 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $72.79bear2838 balance $0, lost $24.14 [ Qc 6s Ks Kc ] [ a flush, king high -- Ks,Js,6s,5s,4s ]ScreaminStvn balance $0.6, lost $24.15 [ Ad 3s Td 7c ] [ LO: 7,5,4,3,A | HI: a pair of threes -- Ad,Kd,Js,3s,3d ]Monoatomic72 balance $69.79 [ LO: 5,4,3,2,A | HI: a flush, ace high with ace kicker -- As,Js,9s,5s,4s

I don't like to be rude, but this is some of the worst poker analysis/advice that is out there.Thinking this way does NOT make money in poker in the long run.Making this call is NOT correct in any sort of pot limit omaha game at any stake.There just isn't any logical reasoning that is correct to make the call here.