Help With A Friend's Quandary

[astros11ss 0]

so i have a friend who is currently working a $11/hr job with very little chance of moving up the ladder and terrible hours (sometimes 7:30am-8pm without a break)... he doesn't particularly enjoy the work and he makes approx $500 a week (so let's say $2k a month) working 50+ hour weeks. however, this job does provide him with health and dental insurance (not really sure if there are any other benefits). he is considering quitting his job and trying his hand at playing poker full time/professionally. from my perspective, he is a winning player at the $50-$200 buyin mtts across the internet who is on the verge of breaking out. his biggest problems right now as i see it is them are 1) he cannot put in significant volume due to his real job and 2) everytime he plays he is playing after a 10 hour work day which obviously is not optimal for a long grueling mtt where the importance of focus/concentration increases the deeper you get. i have offered him a deal where i will pay him $1k a month plus 30% of his profits in a staking arrangement with the understanding he will play minimum of 40 hours a week (and hopefully much more). i'm not quite sure what implications this has from a tax/legal perspective but i just plan to send him 1k on stars at the start of every month plus give him a bankroll to play with. if he has a losing month his makeup will rollover to the next month but i don't really see that as possible to be honest with the volume he will play over the course of a month.the one wrench in the situation is his girlfriend - she is very naive when it comes to the poker world and doesn't believe that someone could play poker as a job or make a steady living off it. in the past she has not been at all receptive to the idea of my friend playing poker full time, although a conversation between him and i that he showed her may possibly have changed her views. in the conversation i basically argued my friend will make much more money, have a much more flexible schedule, and be a much happier person overall, all of which will influence the girlfriend positively as well. it's very possible that my argument did absolutely nothing to change her mind, i really don't know. also, she's not very confident that some guy from the internet will actually keep his word and pay me 1k/month/isn't a 70yr old pervert. with all this information... what pros/cons can you guys come up with for my friend staying at/quitting his job in favor of poker? what can he do to help his girlfriend understand/accept his choice if he chooses poker?edit: he is a real life friend from illinois you guys don't know him he does not have an account on this forum nor has he ever posted here. for the sake of this discussion, just accept my analysis of his skill as fact - he has a good poker mind, is constantly thinking about/analyizing the game, and constantly looking to plug his leaks and get better. this will be amplified 10x if he has much more free time on his hands. he can beat the big online mtts. he is much better than a ton of ranked pocketfivers.

[Vandees 0]

How serious is his gf? Thinking of getting married? Insurance is an important thing, especially with health. And expensive if you're not working. If I was him I'd: dump the woman, get a FT job at WalMart or something, and take your offer in a second.I considered quitting job, cashing 401K for bankroll and doing that a couple of years ago but I was scared of:insurance concernsgetting married soonbills.GL whatever you 2 decide.

[Merlopj 0]

Items to consider:People who get medical and dental benefits these days are really lucky. $11/hr kinda blows, and so do the hours your friend is working. I got laid off last fall and am much happier not working there.(because I hated the boss and got paid poorly, but I really want to get back to work)But if your buddy thinks he can do it and wants to do it, then go for it. Make sure he's got the confidence and mindset for it, because a half-azz attempt won't cut it.Good Luck

[MyPlayIsRAB 0]

lol, this sounds like me, excepti only make $10/hr and i have no benefits.. god i need to get a new job

[astros11ss 0]

rab,please consider making a useful post halfway relevant to the subject at hand (and not some random self-centered comment) SOMETIME today.love,bkice

[Vatche 0]

lol, bkice layn the smack down.

[jjdylan 0]

If he's young, and still in school or whatever...he should def go for it. $11/hr jobs can be had anywhere if he doesnt make it playing poker. Either way, it sounds like he should be in the market for better work.

[LITTLEPOPPA 0]

apologies but what is his current overhead/expenses in relation to his 2k per month...can he eat or get meals where he works..this to me is also important to put n scenario if he works in a restaurant ect when u menation (other benefits)

[WhatArunAA 0]

One of the problems with new " full-timers" is that they often dont have an adequate bankroll to sustain the variances of the game we love. That being said.. with your staking arrangement I would jump all over this opportunity if I was him. It appears that he is in a dead end job right now and with poker the limits you can reach are much higher then a dead end job IMO. If he has proved himself a winning player.. I think he needs to take the plunge when he has the financial backbone that you are offering him.

[SonnyBarger 0]

1. There is no way you can "convince" someone who doesn't like the idea of playing poker for a living to like it.2. If the girlfriend is happy with his $11/hr 50 hr week, it sounds like he can do better.3. Since the job doesn't sound like much of a career path, no harm in giving poker a shot.Important things you left out1. How old is he?2. level of education?3. Any real job skills?4. How does he pay rent if he has a losing month?On the surface, at least giving poker a shot looks like a no-brainer.

[erac22 0]

You can't live on $11/h. Tell him to find another job, go back to school, or try to crack it playing poker. Staying with that job is not an option.

[RDog 0]

I think the biggest thing anyone who is considering playing poker full time needs to consider right now is the legal issues surrounding the game. A year ago, this seems like a no-brainer for your friend but these days.......I don't know. I would think in 6 months there will probably be more clarity with payment processors, etc. and then I think it would be a better time to make an informed decision. If not for these issues, I probably would be leaving my very good job right now to play full time but it is just too risky in my opinion.

[TB17 0]

How sure are you that he will not just back out as soon as he runs bad? It's easy to say something stupid like "that's poker" and not care when you have something to fall back on, but hwen poker is all you got, the swings become harder to take, and he might take it out on the gf or something.To be honest, I think this is one of those "the grass is always greener on the other side" deals, where he sees how successful you are, and wants to do it too. Has he ever faced not cashing in 30 MTTs straight? Are you sure he can deal with it? I try not to get anyone involved with poker unless they really really want to, and in which case they can fend for themselves. I understand that you believe he has talent and can take it very far, but there are weakness that COULD be there that you haven't been able to spot yet, and it might discourage him once he runs into a brick wall.Just my opinion though.

[MyPlayIsRAB 0]

rab,please consider making a useful post halfway relevant to the subject at hand (and not some random self-centered comment) SOMETIME today.love,bkice

i sorry mastah..no happen again

[mrdannyg 274]

in general, i'd say you are pursuing several good ideas with this arrangement. i guess three maim pieces of advice, all obvious:1 - education. if he's stuck at that job now, he won't have any options when he eventually stops playing poker. it is not reasonable to expect him to be able to retire from poker, though arguably, that could be a long-term goal. before embarking on this, he needs to be in a situation where he find a decent job if poker does not work out. this is probably as simple as a correspondance course or a couple courses at a junior college.2 - consider the length of the staking agreement. something like this is probably going to be difficult to find a near-optimal arrangement. the time frame should be short, flexible, or at least strongly considered in the agreeement. i guess that goes with:3 - the details of the agreement. obviously you've put a lot of thought into it already. while we all love FCP, i hope you're also asking at 2+2 or p5's, or whever the staking-specialty forum is. i'm sure they can give excellent advice on the detailed structure of that kind of staking agreement.hey, remember a couple months back when i questioned your maturity? ummm, lol? i've been way off before, but that one seems pretty ludicrous now. you're obviously doing some extremely smart things with your time, money and knowledge.

[Janfor99 0]

I think the biggest thing anyone who is considering playing poker full time needs to consider right now is the legal issues surrounding the game. A year ago, this seems like a no-brainer for your friend but these days.......I don't know. I would think in 6 months there will probably be more clarity with payment processors, etc. and then I think it would be a better time to make an informed decision. If not for these issues, I probably would be leaving my very good job right now to play full time but it is just too risky in my opinion.

I'd have to agree with this, even if he just waits the 3 months until the Banks establish the rules for this stupid unlawful gaming act!Other than this new stupid law, I'd say go for it....he's young, not risking flunking out of school, and is willing to take the plunge, if his girlfriend doesn't support him at least taking the chance at his dream, perhaps she's not the right person.my 2 cents

[astros11ss 0]

a couple clarifications:1) my friend has already graduated and got his degree - when i said u of illinois friend i meant i met him at school, not that he's still in school. 2) to all of you saying "get rid of the gf" - that is not the point, please trust my friend has better outlets for romantic advice than full contact poker general forums. please assume the girlfriend is a non-negotiable aspect of this quandary.3) littlepoppa - i believe he has about $500 in expenses per month (he shares his apartment with his gf i believe, not really sure). i will ask him and clarify later. he does not receive any food at his job. 4) although he is relatively new to poker (less than a year seriously) he understands downswings and negative ariance MUCH more than he understands running good at this point. i am not worried about him not being able to handle the swings, "copping out" or anything of that nature.5) sonnybarger - "1. There is no way you can "convince" someone who doesn't like the idea of playing poker for a living to like it." we are not trying to convince him, he likes the idea just fine. we're trying to convince his girlfriend who doesn't understand how poker can be a skill game or a regular earninghe is 23 I THINKhe has a bachelor's degree in communications or summathe pays rent with a portion of the guaranteed $1k he makes every month6) the type of staking agreement we set up is irrelevent here. please trust that he and i will have a long discussion about the different options we have and which one will be most advantageous to him based on his short and long term goals. i really appreciate everyone's comments but please try and address the question(s) i asked and not give my friend advice he wants or needs.

[Zach6668 513]

How sure are you that he will not just back out as soon as he runs bad? It's easy to say something stupid like "that's poker" and not care when you have something to fall back on, but hwen poker is all you got, the swings become harder to take, and he might take it out on the gf or something.

This is such a good point.Ever since I quit my jopke of a $8/hr job to play full time (while in school), I've run colder than I've ever run in my life, and it has a serious impact on how I live my non-poker life. My BR is dying because I keep taking money out to pay for bills, etc, and every losing session becomes more and more stressful on myself, etc, and I definitely am not the most cheerful person to be around these days (not that I ever was, but I used to be sometimes).Anyways, you gotta be ready to handle it mentally, when you run like *** for months on end. I wasn't, and now I'm dealing with it, probably sub-optimally.GL though.- Zach

[erac22 0]

How sure are you that he will not just back out as soon as he runs bad? It's easy to say something stupid like "that's poker" and not care when you have something to fall back on,

$11/h is not something to fall back on...

[hank213 1,823]

I would put the proposition in this kind of context for the gf:This is going to be like starting up a small business. The staking agreement is akin to a small business loan, but better to the extent that 1K/mo. is going to be offered to take care of personal expenses like rent etc regardless of how well the business does in its initial months/year of operation. Meaning that even if sales (wins) are slow there will still be money there to take care of living expenses. Furthermore, this juncture in his life is the optimal time to attempt starting a small business because he is young and his personal expenses are relatively low. If he were to wait a few years it would be a much riskier venture because his personal expenses would most likely be higher with more risk involved since they could be married with children and a mortgage payment to worry about etc. Play up the angle that now is the time to take a shot to establish success and that if he waits he'll be another wage slave living check to check because he will absolutely need the job, that isn't necessarily the case now.

[SonnyBarger 0]

5) sonnybarger - "1. There is no way you can "convince" someone who doesn't like the idea of playing poker for a living to like it." we are not trying to convince him, he likes the idea just fine. we're trying to convince his girlfriend who doesn't understand how poker can be a skill game or a regular earning

That's what I meant -its not possible to convince the girl or anyone else who doesn't think its a good idea to change their view.Thus, if ditching the girl is out of the question, he should keep the job and forget poker, but if that's the case, then he's already made up his mind what's most important to him. One way or the other, he needs to find something that pays better. $11/hr was way below normal for a college grad 20 years ago.

[nutzbuster 7]

When ya got nothin', ya got nothin' to lose.G L to your friend either way.

[Brisco 0]

ICE, Heres my 2 cents.1. If he has 4 year degree making 11 bucks an hour he really needs to examine his career situation. I have secretaries that make more than that just because they can type.2. Dont underestimate the value of the health insurance. I went without when I was young and just out of college. If he is young and healthy I guess I would not sweat it too much.3. I managed to make 400 to 600 a month playing .25 .50 in my spare time so replacing the 2K should not be a huge deal if he is as good as you say he is. And I am thinking that you would have a good idea of how to evaluate these things with all of your experience. 4. The GF thing. Well there is nothiing he can do about that, however i suspect that is first significan MTT cash that rivals a months salary should smooth things over. NO KIDS is the big thing. Hell if i was single no kids I would be playing RIGHT NOW.5. You are a generous dude with your proposal, and in his place i jump in a SECOND! You can ALWAYS make 11 bucks an hour.

[astros11ss 0]

That's what I meant -its not possible to convince the girl or anyone else who doesn't think its a good idea to change their view.Thus, if ditching the girl is out of the question, he should keep the job and forget poker, but if that's the case, then he's already made up his mind what's most important to him. One way or the other, he needs to find something that pays better. $11/hr was way below normal for a college grad 20 years ago.

dude... it's fine if she thinks it's not a good idea ONCE SHE FULLY UNDERSTANDS the concept of a pro online poker player. the problem is, i'm not convinced she understands at all. maybe he needs to show her his spreadsheets, his pokerdb, etc. i'm looking for advice from people who have had similar issues with his significant other.

[Vandees 0]

Hope I didnt get misunderstood...I didnt say dump the girlfriend...however, if she is an important part of his life, he cannot be successful with her doubting him. It will cause too much stress, strain on the time, relationship, etc. She should support him if thats what he wants to do, 100% or nothing. If its his dream, he should go for it. Especially with a good friend helping.If he's not 100% committed, can't get his gf to commit, then he should forget it. Life is too short to work a job you hate. If he makes a change, just do it. But have your support group around you ready and willing to help. Otherwise you wont be successful.In other news, I've cashed in some PS tourneys...if you want to stake me, I'm in!