meservery 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 .25/.50 NLStandard I dont have the Hand History from the FCP poker room.9 handed table.4-5 limpers to me on the button with K 7 I call.SB/BB, complete/checkFlop: A T 3 Pot is like $2.50SB leads for 1.70 (20ish behind)Folds to MP who makes it 3.40 (50ish behind)LP makes is 6.80 (20ish behind)ME SHOVES $50.50!With all that action in front of me, I figured I couldnt call cause it would prolly get re-raised by the SB or MP, so I figured what the hell and put the decision on everyone else but me... Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It's certainly not the worst shove ever, but I think you have to consider that the chance of a successful bluff here is pretty low. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It's certainly not the worst shove ever, but I think you have to consider that the chance of a successful bluff here is pretty low.I agree.Your fold equity is small and to make matters worse, I'd guess that one of the 3 players who stabbed at the pot might have a flush draw.I think this hand should definitely be folded.At least you're drawing to the nuts... Link to post Share on other sites
NEtwowilldo 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Fold PF Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Fold PFIf I can get into a 6-7 way limped pot on the button with K7s I would every time. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I tend to agree here. If I can easily fold 1 pair and the players are fairly predictable, limping in with a suited king is nothing out of the ordinary here. It's not like I'm gonna flop a pair of 7s and go broke. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I tend to agree here. If I can easily fold 1 pair and the players are fairly predictable, limping in with a suited king is nothing out of the ordinary here. It's not like I'm gonna flop a pair of 7s and go broke.Sure, if the 7 isn't the biggest card on the flop. But what if it's a 7-high flop, though. How're you going to get away from that!!!?! Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Sure, if the 7 isn't the biggest card on the flop. But what if it's a 7-high flop, though. How're you going to get away from that!!!?!Damn. Didn't even think of that. Now I gotta go rethink my whole position.It sucks becuase just when you think you got things together, a better player comes along and shoots your game all full of holes. Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This isn't a BAD play... It's the nut flush semi-bluff and you are probably going to get one caller, the pot is getting up there, but it's not the best play. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Damn. Didn't even think of that. Now I gotta go rethink my whole position.It sucks becuase just when you think you got things together, a better player comes along and shoots your game all full of holes.Yeah, cause you'd have the second nut top pair. Saying you could fold that is the exact same thing as saying you could fold the second nut flush if it came all hearts. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Yeah, cause you'd have the second nut top pair. Saying you could fold that is the exact same thing as saying you could fold the second nut flush if it came all hearts.Will you post 8 more times and get this over with. The suspense is killing me. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This isn't a BAD play... It's the nut flush semi-bluff and you are probably going to get one caller, the pot is getting up there, but it's not the best play.It is a BAD play because the pot isn't really that big yet and 3 people have already made a move at the pot on the flop. The last one already bet enough, knowing he's the 2nd raiser on the flop, that he's not going to fold. You can't semi-bluff where you have no fold equity. Well, I mean, you can, but it will never work and you might as well be calling all-in on a draw. Link to post Share on other sites
meservery 0 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Fold PFmeh. my normal play would be to raise between 3 and 4. folding is for quitters. Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 It is a BAD play because the pot isn't really that big yet and 3 people have already made a move at the pot on the flop. The last one already bet enough, knowing he's the 2nd raiser on the flop, that he's not going to fold. You can't semi-bluff where you have no fold equity. Well, I mean, you can, but it will never work and you might as well be calling all-in on a draw.No no I agree with the fact someone WILL call him, but the pot has about 10$ in it, again, you're right not that bad. But personally. I think at ABSOLUTE WORST here, which would be bad is he's against a set. It's very possible someone limped with bottom set here. But I still prefer him going all in to CALLING down on a draw. Both plays not GREAT, but... it's not the worst. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 No no I agree with the fact someone WILL call him, but the pot has about 10$ in it, again, you're right not that bad. But personally. I think at ABSOLUTE WORST here, which would be bad is he's against a set. It's very possible someone limped with bottom set here. But I still prefer him going all in to CALLING down on a draw. Both plays not GREAT, but... it's not the worst.If he's against A2 or a set of tens, his outs are virtually unchanged. The only thing that happens when he's against a set is he loses an out (the flush card that pairs the board) and he can't backdoor 2 pair or trips to win.My point being that if he's against Ax it's just about the same as being against a set. If he knows he's getting called, pushing is bad. The idea of pushing a draw is that people might fold. If nobody is going to fold, you really need to work backwards in your head, calculate the pot odds that you'd get if you called all-in (essentially what will happen) and see if the odds are there for you to make the "call." If they're not there, you fold. If they are there, then go ahead, push and gamble it up. Link to post Share on other sites
NoSup4U 0 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 If you shove, bottom set might consider folding. Just saying...:)I agree with the masses, clear fold here.Mark Link to post Share on other sites
meservery 0 Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Is it a leak that I wanted to shove to teach the min raise followed by another min raise a lesson? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Is it a leak that I wanted to shove to teach the min raise followed by another min raise a lesson?I'll give you 2 guesses. You'll only need one. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Is it a leak that I wanted to shove to teach the min raise followed by another min raise a lesson?I'm not sure putting your stack in as a dog is going to have the effect you're looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I'm not sure putting your stack in as a dog is going to have the effect you're looking for.How do you know he's a dog? Have you seen their hands? The man has King HIGH! He's beating a TON of hands... Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 If he's against A2 or a set of tens, his outs are virtually unchanged. The only thing that happens when he's against a set is he loses an out (the flush card that pairs the board) and he can't backdoor 2 pair or trips to win.My point being that if he's against Ax it's just about the same as being against a set. If he knows he's getting called, pushing is bad. The idea of pushing a draw is that people might fold. If nobody is going to fold, you really need to work backwards in your head, calculate the pot odds that you'd get if you called all-in (essentially what will happen) and see if the odds are there for you to make the "call." If they're not there, you fold. If they are there, then go ahead, push and gamble it up.One thing you forget to mention... No retard in their right mind, I don't care WHAT level it is, will not call a re-re-re-reraise with top pair. NEVER, maybe MAYBE AK, but anything else, I'd let go. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 One thing you forget to mention... No retard in their right mind, I don't care WHAT level it is, will not call a re-re-re-reraise with top pair. NEVER, maybe MAYBE AK, but anything else, I'd let go.People can surprise you. Never say never. Link to post Share on other sites
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