11 replies to this topic

[zimmer4141]

I had about $40 in front of me at .25/.50 when I saw 8s 7d in the BB. An early position player limped, as did 2 MP players, and the SB. I check to see the free flop.Flop: 5 6:spade: A:club:SB checks, I check, EP bets $1. MPs fold and SB raises to 2. I call although I'm not getting the right pot odds, I figure I can get paid off if I hit. EP also calls.Turn: 9:spade:giving me the straight, but also presenting flush possibilities. SB bets out $7, just under the size of the pot. What would you do in this spot? What do you think he has, and what would you do?

[jack24bauer24]

What are you doing calling the flop bet and raise?Bad bad bad.Why call to hit a straight when your straight could make a flush?Thats a huge leak.

[Petoria]

how much does the SB have in front of him?These are possible hands, see which one makes the most sense in no particular order:1. I think the SB could've flopped two pair and fell into the trap of getting too tricky with them and going for a check-raise. His check-raise was way too small though. 2. He might think that you're on a draw and might fold for $2, but when the card that makes every draw comes out, he bets. hmmmmmm.3. Here is another possibility. He has a monster hand like top pair and nut flush draw. He makes his hand in a big way. Again the bet on the turn doesn't make much sense.4. He has an extremely low flush draw? The check-raise on the flop is made to chase away other drawers. Leading out on the turn is done to protect his low flush against other draw.5. He's on a bluff and his check-raise is done to set you up no matter what card hits on the turn. Since he has represented a strong hand, he can scare away anything except a flush with a big bet on the turn.6. He makes a nut flush draw on the turn with his big pair. He could very well be semi-bluffing.I think the possibility is too strong that you have the best hand for you to fold. Either raise or call. A raise might gain you the most information, or win the pot but it costs alot of money. A call will give you a chance to pick up the pot on the river if your spades are outs (assuming 4 or 5). This is just my opinion, but i think he's semi-bluffing. He's probably made himself pot-committed so you can't scare him away.Tough, tough decision, and one that i've had to deal with many times myself. Maybe this is one of those situations that makes me give away monsy at times. If you know what he had, I'm really curious.Good luck

[Vade]

FoldProblem is you have a compromised straight drawReally, you only have 6 clean outs, not enough to stay involved, I'd have folded on the flop actually

[RISEorFall]

jack24bauer24 said:

What are you doing calling the flop bet and raise?Bad bad bad.Why call to hit a straight when your straight could make a flush?Thats a huge leak.

whoa now...its not that huge of a leak. May be more of a leak in NL than in limit where you can just check/call down, but its not that big of a deal. he has several outs to the nuts, and even though there is a flush draw on the board, doesnt mean someone has that draw. If you have the discipline enough to make your hand but dump when someone obviously has the flush, its not that big of a deal. Now to the hand...the check raise minimum is somewhat of a limit play when you have a flush draw. I'd be worried about that...until the big bet on the turn when the draw hits. If he makes a nut flush I think most people would check it and let someone else bet for them. Maybe this guy is different, all comes with knowing your opponent, but I don't think he has a flush, or if he does, not a great one. I think top pair w/ nut flush draw or 2 pair maybe, or maybe a pair hoping nobody will chase another spade. The only thing I'd be worried about here is a guy playing a suited connector and like Petoria said...hit the flush but not a great one and bet enough to get himself committed to the hand. Or trying to drive out a bigger flush draw. This actually makes sense to me here...the check/raise on the flop could be him trying to drive out bigger flush draws (albeit a horrible bet if that's what he was going for), and then betting big on the turn to get himself committed and drive out runner runner flush draws.

[jack24bauer24]

In NL its a major leak.

[RISEorFall]

if you call without decent odds, or can't get rid of your hand when you hit it but you're obviously beat, then yes, i agree. and yeah, most people will have trouble folding a straight when there's a 3-flush on the board and they're sure they're beat. I think you're right that it can be a huge leak, but I don't see it being that bad as a rule.

[69suited]

Zimmer4141 said:

I had about $40 in front of me at .25/.50 when I saw 8s 7d in the BB. An early position player limped, as did 2 MP players, and the SB. I check to see the free flop.Flop: 5 6:spade: A:club:SB checks, I check, EP bets $1. MPs fold and SB raises to 2. I call although I'm not getting the right pot odds, I figure I can get paid off if I hit. EP also calls.Turn: 9:spade:giving me the straight, but also presenting flush possibilities. SB bets out $7, just under the size of the pot. What would you do in this spot? What do you think he has, and what would you do?

You also have a straight flush draw correct me if I am wrong, so the call my be ok as if the 7s comes out you might even with a bigger pot if he has the As.

[zimmer4141]

Result of the hand:I raised the min amount to $14 figuring he would reraise if he had the flush, fold with 2 pair only, and call if he had a flush draw. He only called my bet, and the river came a 2 of hearts. He checked and I quickly moved all in. He thought for a while and folded with A:spade: 6 , and I won a huge pot.

[PrtyPSux]

69suited said:

You also have a straight flush draw correct me if I am wrong, so the call my be ok as if the 7s comes out you might even with a bigger pot if he has the As.

yea and if he doesnt hit his one outer? then what he spent $7 and he cant win more than $31 + $15 (avg pot size) he's paying $7 to win aprox a $46 pot, his odds of hitting are 45 to 1 .. maybe the player with the 7 dlr raise had 2 pr, and was trying to represent the flush but even so your still not gonna be able to call if he pushes on the river, also if the EP calls you know ur screwed, there is no reason to call and chase the 7s.. I would have folded, (maybe these past 2 days I would have called, but in the right state of mind i would fold on the flop.)

[Nutcracker]

Quote

Result of the hand:I raised the min amount to $14 figuring he would reraise if he had the flush, fold with 2 pair only, and call if he had a flush draw. He only called my bet, and the river came a 2 of hearts. He checked and I quickly moved all in. He thought for a while and folded with ASuit: Spade 6 Suit: Heart, and I won a huge pot.

I'd be inclined to check the river in case he's going for a trap (since he could now have the nuts with a flush, easily) or in case he's got a lower flush and has decided check/call is the safest way to play it. If he was on an ace high flush draw (as the case is) or some other funky draw, he's not gonna call that river bet. Bad value bet.

[Petoria]

Petoria said:

how much does the SB have in front of him?These are possible hands, see which one makes the most sense in no particular order:1. I think the SB could've flopped two pair and fell into the trap of getting too tricky with them and going for a check-raise. His check-raise was way too small though. 2. He might think that you're on a draw and might fold for $2, but when the card that makes every draw comes out, he bets. hmmmmmm.3. Here is another possibility. He has a monster hand like top pair and nut flush draw. He makes his hand in a big way. Again the bet on the turn doesn't make much sense.4. He has an extremely low flush draw? The check-raise on the flop is made to chase away other drawers. Leading out on the turn is done to protect his low flush against other draw.5. He's on a bluff and his check-raise is done to set you up no matter what card hits on the turn. Since he has represented a strong hand, he can scare away anything except a flush with a big bet on the turn.6. He makes a nut flush draw on the turn with his big pair. He could very well be semi-bluffing.I think the possibility is too strong that you have the best hand for you to fold. Either raise or call. A raise might gain you the most information, or win the pot but it costs alot of money. A call will give you a chance to pick up the pot on the river if your spades are outs (assuming 4 or 5). This is just my opinion, but i think he's semi-bluffing. He's probably made himself pot-committed so you can't scare him away.Tough, tough decision, and one that i've had to deal with many times myself. Maybe this is one of those situations that makes me give away monsy at times. If you know what he had, I'm really curious.Good luck

I suppose I can't gloat since I put every possible result of the hand, but I will anyway. I mean I did say, that I thought it was a semi-bluff.I hope my post will help you evaluate situations like this quickly, I know it helped me. Thanks for the post.