5 replies to this topic

[Rocketwadster]

I just finished a $10+1 NL Tourney on Paradise. I was spot on every time I decided to play a hand. I felt great about how I played it, until it got down to four of us. This hand came up, which put me in a bind. Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t250 (4 handed) converterSB (t3370.00)BB (t1170.00)UTG (t2815.00)Hero (t2645.00)Preflop: Hero is Button with [8h], [8d]. SB posts a blind of t250. UTG raises to t1000, (All-In) calls t170.Flop: (t2590) [3d], [5c], [Kh] (2 players)Turn: (t2590) [8s] (2 players)River: (t2590) [Kd] (2 players)Final Pot: t2590Results in white below: BB has Ks Th (three of a kind, kings). UTG has 7d As (one pair, kings). Outcome: BB wins t2590. Sorry if you don't like to see the results, but I am not asking for help on the play or hand analysis, but am curious how often this happens to other people (happens to me A LOT!!) I told the raiser as soon as he raised that I was going to raise it. The guy next to me also said he was going to raise it as well if I didn't (he said right then that he had ace ten). As you can see, I folded a full house to UTG's stupid play with a naked ace. I am pretty sure I wasn't supposed to call this raise in my position (I hate coming in fourth, and had I lost this hand I would have for sure in my mind). Not long after this, I was down to $395 chips in the dealer position, but thankfully the BB from this hand had made a bad play and got put out. I ended up in third place (which I am happy about, but had I played this hand like I wanted to I have no doubt in my mind that I would have gotten at least second) when my ace jack offsuit was unable to bet pocket tens. UTG cost me at least $10, if not $30. Am I crazy to be upset about someone else's play here, or was I the fool for not calling or going all-in over top of UTG?

[Swift_Psycho]

The fold isn't that bad. But, try not telling the guys you are going to raise and just playing your game. You really don't have a legit reason to be mad at the guy with A-rag.

[Rocketwadster]

Swift_Psycho said:

The fold isn't that bad. But, try not telling the guys you are going to raise and just playing your game. You really don't have a legit reason to be mad at the guy with A-rag.

This is a problem I have, as I go on tilt a lot when someone does something that costs me money when they make a stupid play (in my mind). Examples are in a ring game and someone called 3=bets pre-flop with Jack 4 suited and ended up winning with three fours or something similar. I get so mad and start telling them that they are morons etc. which can only hurt me even more (when they realize that they need to read a book or four and get better). In this example I have posted, I was pretty mad that the guy raised in front of me, but if he won who cares. I got really mad when I realized I had folded a full house. I was extremely upset when I was down to $395 in the dealer spot with four of us left to go (all signs pointed to me being blinded to death in yet another fourth place finish).

[Ebonwoulfe]

If you think you're considerably better than this field, lay it down. WHY WOULD I LAY IT DOWN WHEN I HAVE THE BEST HAND!? Settle down, I'll tell you.If you have 8 8 and he has two overs and you call him and he gets lucky (which he will roughly 45% of the time) you might just be out of the tourney. While, granted, the other 55% of the time you will have a nice infusion into your stack, it's the 45% that we have to worry about. When you put your life on the line as a 55% favorite, your chances of going on to win the tourny drop to less than 55% since you don't know what will happen after that hand even if you do manage to double through, but 45% of the time you will lose right there. If you think your chances of winning the tourney if you fold here and hope to outplay them later are greater than the chances of winning the tourney if you get in here with a 45% chance to bust but a 55% chance to double through, then fold and pick a better spot. If you think you'd win 50% of the time if you fold this 88, then it's correct to fold. Granted, it's hard to be 50% sure you can win when you only have about 1/4 of the chips in play, but if you are good and they are lucky to be where they are, it's possible.Usually this play is only wise early in a tourney tho. Once I folded KK to two all-ins (both after my raise) and they showed AK and AQ, respectively. The AQ won with runner runner Q. I would have taken a major hit if I had played the hand, but I folded it. Was it wise? I don't know, but I won the tourney. In this case though, since blinds are 1/10th of most stacks, it's move-in poker. 88 is a good hand, why not push and pray. If you fold the best hand and steam the rest of your chips away over 75% of the time, then calling is clearly superior.

[cdddc75]

Rocketwadster said:

As you can see, I folded a full house to UTG's stupid play with a naked ace.  UTG cost me at least $10, if not $30.  Am I crazy to be upset about someone else's play here, or was I the fool for not calling or going all-in over top of UTG?

I actually don't think UTG's play is terrible here. Axo isn't an awful hand four handed, and he effectively isolated the blind. His aggressive bet forced a better hand out and got him heads up against an inferior hand (preflop).I would have very reluctantly folded the eights in your position too. Before blaming the UTG for your finish, you should examine the HH that got you from t2815 to t395.

[Rocketwadster]

cdddc75 said:

Rocketwadster said:

As you can see, I folded a full house to UTG's stupid play with a naked ace.  UTG cost me at least $10, if not $30.  Am I crazy to be upset about someone else's play here, or was I the fool for not calling or going all-in over top of UTG?

I actually don't think UTG's play is terrible here. Axo isn't an awful hand four handed, and he effectively isolated the blind. His aggressive bet forced a better hand out and got him heads up against an inferior hand (preflop).I would have very reluctantly folded the eights in your position too. Before blaming the UTG for your finish, you should examine the HH that got you from t2815 to t395.

The hand history was I got blinded down to that stage with crap hands that people kept raising me out of (which they were right to do).I called UTG's play bad here as he was exactly that, UTG. Obviously, the correct play is to raise the short stacked BB, but I don't think it was his job in this case, as there were two other players yet to act befor ethe decision even got to the big blind. As it was, both of the other players yet to act (me and the SB) had better than average hands also, both better than UTG's, and both of us were making the same play. Had I been the UTG and he been me (simply reversing the roles but keeping the chip stacks the same), 9 times out of ten I would not have made the play he did based on how the table had been played and the players moves up until then.