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#21 Actuary

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 06:18 PM

View Post11 to 1, on Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 6:07 PM, said:

maybe you wouldn't mind looking atit and adding suggestions.
I'm alone for 6 hours after work and before bed each weeknight.Yeah, I'll check it out.Please go to Indiana and buy my home; so my wife can come down here.thanks!

#22 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 09:30 AM

View PostActuary, on Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 9:18 PM, said:

I'm alone for 6 hours after work and before bed each weeknight.Yeah, I'll check it out.Please go to Indiana and buy my home; so my wife can come down here.thanks!
Buyer's market. It's my prediction that prices will keep dropping for another three-five months, level out and stay there until after the lections. Get a management company and see if you can rent it out. Or, if you can take the loss right now, drop the price so low no one can pass it up. So, I developed this as my "game plan" and if I follow it with real discipline, I do OK. I have small losses and steady gains. Once in a while a big pot, but mostly lots of small ones. It ain't revolutionary, but I did it this way because I can't seem to get the hang of positional poker. I understand the concept, but there was so much to learn so fast, I decided, "I can play this way from any position." And I do. I raise with AA-99, AK and AQ. (I am developing a bizarre superstition about AK, I lost with it every time I had it last night, which was three times. I also hate JJ and usually don't raise with it, even though the list says I should, I lost FOUR times with it last night. - I had a bad night as you can tell.) I limp and will call one bet with lower pairs, JTs and Axs. I also play Kx suited if I can limp. My rule is: "if you don't hit the flop hard fold." But then, I started playing aggressively and found out, huh, you can bluff at Limit and I think I've gotten kinda sloppy. I had that pokertracker do my profile. It's nuts, something like, tight-loose-aggressive-passive. That's me all over right now! I used to play a lot of suited connectors, but I got sucked out on a lot by overcards and now mostly just play the JT. I lost a lot last night, I think, for two reasons. I just didn't use the discipline to follow my own rules and fold on the flop, I kept thinking, "This AK could improve, the board is Q-9-2 how bad could it be?" And I know better, so that's an internal thing I have to work on. But I also lost because I didn't know when to get off the table. In the end I finally did, went to another table and won a little back, but then was too tired to keep at it. I'm going to ask this in the micro folder as well, When do you leave? That is, if I am playing say, 1-2 Lmt and I have 40$, when do I cut my losses and look for a better table or just quit? I donked that baby off to like 8.50 before I got it back up over 20, then had the sense to get the hell out - but do you use some formula for this?
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#23 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 09:40 AM

View PostZach6668, on Thursday, February 15th, 2007, 8:55 PM, said:

Also, I didn't notice the PF question the first time.Ya, definitely a standard pf raise from any position, usually a 3-bet too.
Wait, I may have gotten lost here. Are you saying to three-bet TT preflop from any position? And I put my PGP (personal game plan) in a post to Actuary but would you mind adding a few cents worth of wisdom? (Everyone should always assume I want to hear from everyone--I do) You're the moderator? Cool! Why doesn't it say that under your icon? On a lot of forums they have a pinned thread just for links, but I'll go look in the pinned ones here and look for them.
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#24 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 10:04 AM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 12:40 PM, said:

Wait, I may have gotten lost here. Are you saying to three-bet TT preflop from any position? And I put my PGP (personal game plan) in a post to Actuary but would you mind adding a few cents worth of wisdom? (Everyone should always assume I want to hear from everyone--I do) You're the moderator? Cool! Why doesn't it say that under your icon? On a lot of forums they have a pinned thread just for links, but I'll go look in the pinned ones here and look for them.
So 3-betting TT is an interesting thing, like 3-betting 99, 88, 77, etc. Not necessarily from any position, but it depends on the raiser. If you are button, and it folds to the CO who raises, your TT is almost always the best hand, so 3-betting is without a doubt the best play, for example.As for your gameplan. I'll be brutally honest. It's not good. Well, only in the sense that poker is too situational to use a gameplan like that. Honestly, what you need to do is understand WHY you are raising with hands like JJ, AK, etc, not simply that you should raise with them because a book said to do it. There's so much to learn in poker that I can't even continue to explain it rigth now, lol. I'm overwhelmed a bit here. It's pretty clear you are new to poker theory, so there's a ton for you to learn, and it's awesome that you have an open mind, and definitely a willingness/desire to learn, but I have no idea even where to start.Hopefully Actuary can detail a bit more here.- Zach
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#25 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 10:40 AM

View PostZach6668, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 1:04 PM, said:

So 3-betting TT is an interesting thing, like 3-betting 99, 88, 77, etc. Not necessarily from any position, but it depends on the raiser. If you are button, and it folds to the CO who raises, your TT is almost always the best hand, so 3-betting is without a doubt the best play, for example.As for your gameplan. I'll be brutally honest. It's not good. Well, only in the sense that poker is too situational to use a gameplan like that. Honestly, what you need to do is understand WHY you are raising with hands like JJ, AK, etc, not simply that you should raise with them because a book said to do it. There's so much to learn in poker that I can't even continue to explain it rigth now, lol. I'm overwhelmed a bit here. It's pretty clear you are new to poker theory, so there's a ton for you to learn, and it's awesome that you have an open mind, and definitely a willingness/desire to learn, but I have no idea even where to start.Hopefully Actuary can detail a bit more here.- Zach
Thanks, I appreciate any bits you have time for. Maybe it'll be easier if I tell you what I know. I raise big pairs to try and get the limpers out who are gonna suck me out on the river with a gutshot straight draw or smaller pairs who are looking to make trips. I did read that in books, but I also got sucked out on enough in these situations when I started that I always raise now, except, I sometimes don't raise with AA at micro limits in late position because they just won't fold. I can raise it from early position in micro, because they will then not come in at all. (This is like .10/25 ) I also understand that being last to act has advantages. On the tables I used to play, it was standard check-check-check, let's all see if anyone hits anything poker. So, anyone who bets at the pot could take it. That's how I learned to bluff a little. If they didn't fold, I'd check-raise the turn and that usually did it. If it didn't, then I knew they had an actual hand. That doesn't work at these higher limits, thoguh, which is why I developed the new PGP. I used to play lots of suited connectors and stuff, have more fun, make enough money to build a bankroll. But what I don't get is this: If you are button, and it folds to the CO who raises, your TT is almost always the best hand, so 3-betting is without a doubt the best play, for example.Why? I mean, I understand he might just be trying to steal the blinds, but are you talking statistically? Like, at this point it's like playing a four-handed game? I also know enough to know when that super-tight "pro" who has been playing three tables and is steadily working his way into the hundreds at all of them raises prefllop, I don't want to three bet his Aces. (And I understand you have a life, so, if you get around to an answer in a few days, it's OK. I'm not going anywhere. ) And I always want honesty, if it sucks, it does. It's why I asked.
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#26 Moneyball16

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 11:29 AM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:40 AM, said:

Thanks, I appreciate any bits you have time for. Maybe it'll be easier if I tell you what I know. I raise big pairs to try and get the limpers out who are gonna suck me out on the river with a gutshot straight draw or smaller pairs who are looking to make trips. I did read that in books, but I also got sucked out on enough in these situations when I started that I always raise now, except, I sometimes don't raise with AA at micro limits in late position because they just won't fold. I can raise it from early position in micro, because they will then not come in at all. (This is like .10/25 ) I also understand that being last to act has advantages. On the tables I used to play, it was standard check-check-check, let's all see if anyone hits anything poker. So, anyone who bets at the pot could take it. That's how I learned to bluff a little. If they didn't fold, I'd check-raise the turn and that usually did it. If it didn't, then I knew they had an actual hand. That doesn't work at these higher limits, thoguh, which is why I developed the new PGP. I used to play lots of suited connectors and stuff, have more fun, make enough money to build a bankroll. But what I don't get is this:
Even though you maye not be able to get anyone out with AA in lp(which may or may not be true based on how tight the blinds are) there is still an even bigger reason that you have to raise, it has too much value. When your in lp after a bunch of limpers you should be raising quite a few hands just because they have too much value. Lots of pairs, suited broadways and suited aces should be raised.I also wouldnt try too many complete bluffs. Keep to semi bluffing and occasionally picking on people you know can lay down a hand.

#27 Moneyball16

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 11:44 AM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:40 AM, said:

Why? I mean, I understand he might just be trying to steal the blinds, but are you talking statistically? Like, at this point it's like playing a four-handed game? I also know enough to know when that super-tight "pro" who has been playing three tables and is steadily working his way into the hundreds at all of them raises prefllop, I don't want to three bet his Aces. (And I understand you have a life, so, if you get around to an answer in a few days, it's OK. I'm not going anywhere. ) And I always want honesty, if it sucks, it does. It's why I asked.
Whenever someone raises in front of you you should put them on a range of hands based on their postiton and style and reraise them if you believe you have an edge on them based on your hand, posititon, and your ability to outplay them after the flop. One program that helped me find proper preflop standards is pokerstove. I would recommend this to anyone. You can find it at pokerstove.com if you want it.Back to the TT hands against a co open with TT on the button it becomes an eays 3-bet just because it will win too often against the kinds of hands he could be raising preflop. for this same reason TT may be a fold against someone UTG who would only raise JJ+ and AK.

#28 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:06 PM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 1:40 PM, said:

Thanks, I appreciate any bits you have time for. Maybe it'll be easier if I tell you what I know. I raise big pairs to try and get the limpers out who are gonna suck me out on the river with a gutshot straight draw or smaller pairs who are looking to make trips. I did read that in books, but I also got sucked out on enough in these situations when I started that I always raise now, except, I sometimes don't raise with AA at micro limits in late position because they just won't fold. I can raise it from early position in micro, because they will then not come in at all. (This is like .10/25 ) I also understand that being last to act has advantages. On the tables I used to play, it was standard check-check-check, let's all see if anyone hits anything poker. So, anyone who bets at the pot could take it. That's how I learned to bluff a little. If they didn't fold, I'd check-raise the turn and that usually did it. If it didn't, then I knew they had an actual hand. That doesn't work at these higher limits, thoguh, which is why I developed the new PGP. I used to play lots of suited connectors and stuff, have more fun, make enough money to build a bankroll. But what I don't get is this: If you are button, and it folds to the CO who raises, your TT is almost always the best hand, so 3-betting is without a doubt the best play, for example.Why? I mean, I understand he might just be trying to steal the blinds, but are you talking statistically? Like, at this point it's like playing a four-handed game? I also know enough to know when that super-tight "pro" who has been playing three tables and is steadily working his way into the hundreds at all of them raises prefllop, I don't want to three bet his Aces. (And I understand you have a life, so, if you get around to an answer in a few days, it's OK. I'm not going anywhere. ) And I always want honesty, if it sucks, it does. It's why I asked.
Ok, let me give this a shot.A lot of this may go over your head at first, but trust me, if you figure out a way to understand it and get your head wrapped around it, it will improve your game exponentially.1) In limit, you aren't raising hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK, with the goal of folding people. As a matter of fact, you want these calls. If you are in the BB with AA, and every single person at the table limps to you, it's always correct to raise with AA there. You aren't going to get a single person to fold, but your hand is way better than any of their hands. That raise you put in gets 9 more SB in the pot from other players. With AA vs 9 random hands, you are going to win the pot roughly 30% of the time. Now, I know it sucks to get aces cracked, etc, but no matter what the results are for that particular hand, when you put money in with an equity edge (your 30% vs each of the random hand's 7.8%) you make money in the long run. Your 30% equity means that when you get 9 more SB in the pot preflop, you win an extra 30% of those, aka 2.7 SB that you wouldn't have won if you just limped along. Furthermore, even JJ has 17% equity in this scenario, which is almost twice as much as the random hands, so it's a must raise as well. This brings me to my next point.2) In limit (and all poker, really), your goal is not to win the most pots. Your goal is to win the most money. You do this by maximizing your expected value. In the example above, your raise from the BB has an expected value of +2.7 SBs. A check would have an EV of 0 SBs. What you do, is evaluate the expected values of each option at a decision and pick the one with the higher value. Now, obviously we don't have time to calculate everything at the table, but after a while it becomes easy to just spot the right decision. Sometimes that results in losing bigger pots, or losing some pots, but overall, your EV was maximized. It's easier to explain this one with an NL example. Say you have AA and you know the other player is on a flush draw after the turn. He's going to hit 20% of the time (roughly). You have two options, go all in, in which case he folds, and you win nothing more, or bet the size of the pot, which he will call. When he folds, you win the whole pot, but when he calls, you win the whole pot, PLUS the bet he calls on the turn when he misses his flush the 80% of the time. 20% of the time, of course, you lose the whole pot. Either way, you win more money by having him call a bet that he isn't getting proper odds on, even if you lose the pot 20% of the time, than you do by forcing him to fold his hand every time, even though you win the pot 100% of the time.3) This is similar to the above two, but a bit of an extension. When you have the best hand, you WANT calls on the flop and turn with worse hands. Even if they are drawing live. That's the only way you make money. Sure, they can suckout now and again, but just like in point (2), you make more money by getting calls then everyone folding all of the time, even though you lose some pots.4) Specifically now, with respect to the TT hand. If the CO in my hypothetical hand is halfway decent, he's going to be opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in late position. Like you said, it's basically a 4 handed game at that point. Say he raises 25% of his hands when it's folded to him in the CO, TT has about 61% equity against his range, meaning we want to get some money in the pot. Also, in this case, with a hand like TT, it's pretty vulnerable, so it's actually a good thing for the blinds to fold hands like QJ, A9, etc. Also, it really helps to have the lead in the hand, and using position to our advantage is a great way to make money.Now, 1-3 are all hard concepts to get your head wrapped around when you are new to poker theory, but once you get it, you'll get it.If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.- Zach
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#29 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:33 PM

View PostMoneyball16, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 2:29 PM, said:

Even though you maye not be able to get anyone out with AA in lp(which may or may not be true based on how tight the blinds are) there is still an even bigger reason that you have to raise, it has too much value. When your in lp after a bunch of limpers you should be raising quite a few hands just because they have too much value. Lots of pairs, suited broadways and suited aces should be raised.I also wouldnt try too many complete bluffs. Keep to semi bluffing and occasionally picking on people you know can lay down a hand.
I agree and I don't do a lot of complete bluffs, I don't have the nerve, really. Once in a while, like yesterday when some guy was obviously trying to steal my blind and I was sure he has as much squat as I had, he folded when I check-raised the turn. But I was new to the table and willing to lose a couple bucks just saying "Not afraid to call if you raise" - or - ah, he just pi**ed me off. Bad reason to bet, I guess. Now, about those Aces... what I meant, and didn't explain very well is that when in a game where there are like three-four callers in front of me and I'm in late position, I didn't usually raise because maybe one of them will fold, often none and there was often another caller behind me. This was in micro limits, they just don't care about putting in another dime. But when there are five-six players in the pot, well, the chances of the Aces winning diminishes quite a lot so I like to see a flop before I bet. But then I always bet or raised, it's like - delayed pf raising sort of. I guess it sounds stupid, but it seemed to work and I got sucked out on less and got paid off more. Micro players, in my experience, really like folding on the flop, so whoever stayed in had hit the flop somehow and I had some idea what their cards were. Yiou know, I'm talking .5/.10 or maybe .10/.25 here. Now things are different. Now I am raising preflop. (I just did about a half hour ago, and everyone is folding and I'm winning the blinds with AA. This happened twice in one revolution. Which is better than losing, I guess but now I'm thinking of going back to slow-playing Aces preflop, especially from early position until there is some money in the pot at least. But then some guy is going to flop a straight draw and.... So, it's clear I am clueless. So, I saw Zach left a long post, let's see if between the two of you I can get that clue....
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#30 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:42 PM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 3:33 PM, said:

Now, about those Aces... what I meant, and didn't explain very well is that when in a game where there are like three-four callers in front of me and I'm in late position, I didn't usually raise because maybe one of them will fold, often none and there was often another caller behind me. This was in micro limits, they just don't care about putting in another dime. But when there are five-six players in the pot, well, the chances of the Aces winning diminishes quite a lot so I like to see a flop before I bet. But then I always bet or raised, it's like - delayed pf raising sort of. I guess it sounds stupid, but it seemed to work and I got sucked out on less and got paid off more. Micro players, in my experience, really like folding on the flop, so whoever stayed in had hit the flop somehow and I had some idea what their cards were. Yiou know, I'm talking .5/.10 or maybe .10/.25 here.
Not only is it stupid, but it's also wrong. (Just read my post, you'll get it soon enough)

Quote

Now things are different. Now I am raising preflop. (I just did about a half hour ago, and everyone is folding and I'm winning the blinds with AA. This happened twice in one revolution. Which is better than losing, I guess but now I'm thinking of going back to slow-playing Aces preflop, especially from early position until there is some money in the pot at least. But then some guy is going to flop a straight draw and.... So, it's clear I am clueless. So, I saw Zach left a long post, let's see if between the two of you I can get that clue....
Winning the blinds is NOT better than losing a pot with AA.Nonetheless, if there's ONE rule you should stick to hard and fast when you are coming up, it's raise AA preflop EVERY SINGLE TIME, 3-bet it, 4-bet it, EVERY TIME. Put as much money in the pot as you can before the flop.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#31 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:51 PM

View PostZach6668, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 3:06 PM, said:

4) Specifically now, with respect to the TT hand. If the CO in my hypothetical hand is halfway decent, he's going to be opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in late position. Like you said, it's basically a 4 handed game at that point. Say he raises 25% of his hands when it's folded to him in the CO, TT has about 61% equity against his range, meaning we want to get some money in the pot. Also, in this case, with a hand like TT, it's pretty vulnerable, so it's actually a good thing for the blinds to fold hands like QJ, A9, etc. Also, it really helps to have the lead in the hand, and using position to our advantage is a great way to make money.Now, 1-3 are all hard concepts to get your head wrapped around when you are new to poker theory, but once you get it, you'll get it.- Zach
Let me start with this because you are right, the first three will take a few re-reads. So, part of the reason my PGP sucks is because I am NOT opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in the CO, right? Must be esp or something because I was just playing before and thinking about how you said my plan sucked and I needed to think about position. Some guy in the CO raised me off my KTos, which I would have limped with in the SB normally, and, of course, the KT came on the flop. I knew he was just looking for the blinds, but I was following my Plan. The one that sucks. I decided the next time they folded to me when I was the CO, I'd raise with anything I'd raise with 4-handed. Then I thought, well, there are three players here, at least one of them probably has crap, maybe two, so I'll raise with whatever I'd raise with heads up, which is any face card and anything eight or better. It was Q8os, so what the hell, gotta try stuff. Two folds, the BB calls, the flop comes KQx, he checked, I bet, he folded.OK, so I was tilty when I did this and just got lucky, but raising in the CO is something I just haven't done. Let's start with that, because I am the worst at math than anyone you have ever met. I got a bunch of books here with starting hands, but you got a rule of thumb kinda thing for it? Meanwhile, I shall peruse this mysterious EV.....
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#32 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 12:59 PM

View PostZach6668, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 3:42 PM, said:

Not only is it stupid, but it's also wrong. (Just read my post, you'll get it soon enough)Winning the blinds is NOT better than losing a pot with AA.Nonetheless, if there's ONE rule you should stick to hard and fast when you are coming up, it's raise AA preflop EVERY SINGLE TIME, 3-bet it, 4-bet it, EVERY TIME. Put as much money in the pot as you can before the flop.
ZA-ACH! I AM raising preflop, they all folded. Twice. I can't make 'em call me. I swear to the Poker Goddess to always ram and jam as much as possible preflop with Aces. But I am keeping track and thinking I am going to be winning only blinds a lot. (Why is winning blinds not better than losing?)
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#33 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 01:02 PM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 3:51 PM, said:

Let me start with this because you are right, the first three will take a few re-reads. So, part of the reason my PGP sucks is because I am NOT opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in the CO, right? Must be esp or something because I was just playing before and thinking about how you said my plan sucked and I needed to think about position. Some guy in the CO raised me off my KTos, which I would have limped with in the SB normally, and, of course, the KT came on the flop. I knew he was just looking for the blinds, but I was following my Plan. The one that sucks. I decided the next time they folded to me when I was the CO, I'd raise with anything I'd raise with 4-handed. Then I thought, well, there are three players here, at least one of them probably has crap, maybe two, so I'll raise with whatever I'd raise with heads up, which is any face card and anything eight or better. It was Q8os, so what the hell, gotta try stuff. Two folds, the BB calls, the flop comes KQx, he checked, I bet, he folded.OK, so I was tilty when I did this and just got lucky, but raising in the CO is something I just haven't done. Let's start with that, because I am the worst at math than anyone you have ever met. I got a bunch of books here with starting hands, but you got a rule of thumb kinda thing for it? Meanwhile, I shall peruse this mysterious EV.....
Q8o is probably a pretty loose raise there, but you get the main idea. Most of the time, if you get called, they will miss the flop and just check/fold.My range from CO if I'm folded to is like A2s+, A2o+, K7s+, K9o+, Q9s+, QTo+, JTs, JTo, 22+.It grows a bit from the button, and shrinks a bit from MP3, and gets tighter as you get closer to EP.Specifcially, that KTo hand, sometimes you can even 3-bet that out of the blinds, but usually it's a decent fold. Depends on the raiser.What I'd really like you to do, is next time you see a hand like that, where you think you could have played differently, please take the hand history, take it to the converter, fix it up nice, and post it in the Micro Limit forum so we can see the hand. Don't include results, but give your reads if you have any, PT numbers if you knew them at the time, etc. PLEASE do this with as many hands as possible. Any hand that makes you go "hmmmm". AND, even some hands that you would consider that you played standard. I'm sure there's going to be some small things here and there that we will pick up on and let you know.The thing is, it's next to impossible for you to learn the game in just a thread like this. Basically, what I'm saying is take what's in this thread already, and leave it at that, and make a new thread for each hand you think is interesting, or you think you misplayed, or you think you played well, etc. Post 2 million hands if you want, we're here to help. I think that'll help you out a lot more than this thread will, given where you are in the learning curve.- Zach
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#34 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 01:06 PM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 3:59 PM, said:

ZA-ACH! I AM raising preflop, they all folded. Twice. I can't make 'em call me. I swear to the Poker Goddess to always ram and jam as much as possible preflop with Aces. But I am keeping track and thinking I am going to be winning only blinds a lot. (Why is winning blinds not better than losing?)
Sometimes you will win the blinds, that's ok. But most of the time, you'll get calls by worse hands, and that's where you make your money.The reason why, with AA, winning the blinds sucks is because you make more money longterm vs someone who calls preflop with a worse hand, and catches a pair or a weak draw on the flop, and pays you off. Sometimes you lose those hands on the river, or turn, but overall, you make more money. If that was untrue, why wouldn't we just open shove every time we got AA in NL? Right? You want action. That doesn't mean winning the blinds with AA is the end of the world, it's certainly not bad, and you definitely got the most you could out of that hand, since no one had anything worth a call, but it certainly doesn't mean you should slowplay AA to get action. Micro limit players love to call, so give them the chance by raising with AA every time.- ZachPS - POST HANDS!
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#35 Abbaddabba

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:10 PM

Quote

First, I am reading Ace on the River and Barry Greenstein says his win rate per session when he was playing almost all ring games was over 75% for NL and about 58% for Limit.58%? Is this about what you all do? I'm pretty newbie so I don't know what a reasonable expectation of per session is. I don't even think in those terms, but it seems pretty low to me - OTOH...
It depends completely on how long your sessions are, how good you are, and what compels you to end the session.

#36 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:54 PM

View PostZach6668, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 4:06 PM, said:

PS - POST HANDS!
I did, I did! It took me a while to figure out the programs and stuff. Next time I'll put them in micro. Don't be shy about critiquing the way I present them, either. Don't show the result? Ok, next time. I got like 40 hands to post and not that much time, but I'll keep putting them up piecemeal if you'll keep reading them.
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#37 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:59 PM

View Post11 to 1, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 5:54 PM, said:

I did, I did! It took me a while to figure out the programs and stuff. Next time I'll put them in micro. Don't be shy about critiquing the way I present them, either. Don't show the result? Ok, next time. I got like 40 hands to post and not that much time, but I'll keep putting them up piecemeal if you'll keep reading them.
Post as many as you want, as fast as you want. Please!:DBtw, if you do something wrong in your posts, in terms of format, I'll fix it... once... :club:
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#38 11 to 1

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 02:59 PM

View PostZach6668, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 4:02 PM, said:

Q8o is probably a pretty loose raise there, but you get the main idea. Most of the time, if you get called, they will miss the flop and just check/fold.My range from CO if I'm folded to is like A2s+, A2o+, K7s+, K9o+, Q9s+, QTo+, JTs, JTo, 22+.- Zach
Whoa. All the hands I'd like to play but folded with my gritty determined discipline have found a home! Wait a second. Is this why you want aggressive players to your right? Because they will play back at you and passive players on the left.......this could be fun
When truth is nothing but the truth, its unnatural, it's an abstraction that resembles nothing in the real world. - Aldous Huxley

#39 Actuary

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 03:07 PM

3) This is similar to the above two, but a bit of an extension. When you have the best hand, you WANT calls on the flop and turn with worse hands. Even if they are drawing live. That's the only way you make money. Sure, they can suckout now and again, but just like in point (2), you make more money by getting calls then everyone folding all of the time, even though you lose some pots.As you know Zach, you actually WANT folds from hands drawing live that would be calling CORRECTLY.the thing is though, you want them to pay to take the pot 20% of the timeEven pf if there are 9 limpers to us in the BB, we'd like ALL folds when we raise4.5 BB's for no risk, is like 13 BB's when we are 30% to win against 9 others.And we aren't losing additional bets on later streets.Otherwise, I agree with what you are saying.

#40 Zach6668

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 03:10 PM

View PostActuary, on Friday, February 16th, 2007, 6:07 PM, said:

3) This is similar to the above two, but a bit of an extension. When you have the best hand, you WANT calls on the flop and turn with worse hands. Even if they are drawing live. That's the only way you make money. Sure, they can suckout now and again, but just like in point (2), you make more money by getting calls then everyone folding all of the time, even though you lose some pots.As you know Zach, you actually WANT folds from hands drawing live that would be calling CORRECTLY.the thing is though, you want them to pay to take the pot 20% of the timeEven pf if there are 9 limpers to us in the BB, we'd like ALL folds4.5 BB's for no risk, is like 13 BB's when we are 30% to win against 9 others.And we aren't losing additional bets on later streets.Otherwise, I agree with what you are saying.
Well ya, in a vacuum.That obv would never happen, so what I'm saying is 9 calls is better than you checking.True on the wanting folds from people drawing and getting the odds though.I should have stated that our main goal is to make less mistakes then our opponents. Ie, them folding while getting correct odds, like calling getting wrong odds, are their mistakes we can try to force.I hope 11-1 is taking notes.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.




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